The guy I keep waiting for: Schoop

[LookitsPuck]

Wow, that's quite a statement. If having a 66 OPS+ is a catastrophe, then there have been 35 catastrophic seasons since 2000 among batting title qualifiers. And 189 catastrophic seasons since the turn of the century if you lower the PA threshold to 300.

Personally I'd set the catastrophe threshold to something more along the lines of end-stage Chone Figgins.

Regardless of severity of term, Schoop has been awful with the bat.

Cesar Izturis was largely ridiculed for his bat while posting a 63 OPS+ with the O's in 2009 while following up with a 51 OPS+ in 2010. Considering prior to this past week his OPS+ was more along the lines of high 50's/low 60's...he has been quite bad. Catastrophic is certainly a term I would use considering all his other metrics.

[tettleton14]

It's not a position that can be filled by anyone who would produce much better. Even those who might are defensive liabilities. Considering the Os have won lots and lots with good defense/bad offense 2B so far, I'm inclined to stick with it.

I also think Schoop has the ability to hit. He hasn't yet, clearly. But I'd rather stick with him than experiment elsewhere.

[DrungoHazewood]

Regardless of severity of term, Schoop has been awful with the bat.

Cesar Izturis was largely ridiculed for his bat while posting a 63 OPS+ with the O's in 2009 while following up with a 51 OPS+ in 2010. Considering prior to this past week his OPS+ was more along the lines of high 50's/low 60's...he has been quite bad. Catastrophic is certainly a term I would use considering all his other metrics.

The difference between Izturis and Schoop is Izturis was in mid-career. That 60-ish OPS was his expected production, there was no more ceiling in there.

[LookitsPuck]

The difference between Izturis and Schoop is Izturis was in mid-career. That 60-ish OPS was his expected production, there was no more ceiling in there.

Well, that part is obvious. Are you convinced 4 months worth of stats from Schoop is going to be invalidated in the next 2 and a half months? When I bash Schoop's woeful offensive production I'm not discounting his future performance after this year. No, I'm bashing his performance in the now (coupled with a mostly meh AA and AAA performance). And right now his offense (including OPS+) is catastrophic (to me). It doesn't really matter. I think most would agree it's been anywhere from awful to bad...but most (I'd hope) wouldn't call it average or good.

[gmelson26]

Schoop has a MLB OPS of .605. Through age 22 Brooks Robinson had a .631 OPS. Pie Traynor had a .572. Nellie Fox a .613. Mike Schmidt a .619. Tony Perez was 2-for-25. High Pockets Kelly was 20-for-144 (.139). And about 30 HOF position players had yet to make their debut by Schoop's age. Ozzie Smith and Hughie Jennings had lower OPSes through 24 than Schoop does at 22.

It would be nice for him to figure things out right away, but it doesn't always work that way. Even among the enshrined.

This to me cannot be stated enough. You did the research on what my gut told me, thanks. He's 22 and he's the starting 2B on (probably) the best team we've fielded in 17 years. We can't have all-stars at every position as we don't have a 200+ million dollar budget.

[DrungoHazewood]

This to me cannot be stated enough. You did the research on what my gut told me, thanks. He's 22 and he's the starting 2B on (probably) the best team we've fielded in 17 years. We can't have all-stars at every position as we don't have a 200+ million dollar budget.

Well... it could be overstated. While a good number of players who hit like Schoop has at 22 became very good players, many didn't. I only meant that not everyone can hit at 22, and sometimes it takes a while to adjust to major league pitching. No guarantees.

[brianod]

Depending on Schoop to break out and replace Mannies offense is similar to buying a power ball ticket and counting on it to pay for rent. I'm hopeful that Schoop improves from here on out but I think it will be a slow, painful process.

[Ruzious]

And yet Oakland, San Francisco, and San Diego all have worse OPSes out of their second basemen than the Orioles.

And yet, Oakland's starting 2nd baseman has a higher OPS than Schoop, and last I checked - SF and SD are listed in the NL.

[Ruzious]

He had gone 39 games without an error before making an error in each of the last two games (though Buck questioned the official scorer's call from last night). I think it's pretty hard to dispute that he has played an above average 2B overall.

I've advocated sending Schoop to the minors for a while, but it's apparent that Dan and Buck aren't going to do that. So instead, I'm rooting for him to start to "get it" at the plate. I believe he has the innate ability and someday will be an above average hitter for a 2B.

Well good for you. Who the hell here isn't rooting for Schoop to do well?

[CA-ORIOLE]

And yet, Oakland's starting 2nd baseman has a higher OPS than Schoop, and last I checked - SF and SD are listed in the NL.

OAK an SF have made multiple moves to improve second base. OAK recently got Callaspo back.So, yeah it's not like us just willing to ride the horrid production out. I'm not sure San Diego really matters.

I'd love to see Schoop break out (even average ML production from this point forward) but I'm not really seeing anything in the approach to suggest he will. He occasionally gets some good pitches to handle (usually up in the zone) and drives them, but that's about it. But hey, I guess the team knows and sees a lot more than me and has their reasons.

[El Gordo]

From what I've seen from Schoop, if you're waiting for him I think you'll have to wait at least until next year.

[Norfolk orioles]

Count me in the send schoop down camp.

I'd rather see what Jemile weeks can do. At the very least he'll get on base at a higher clip and can steal bases.

The occasional schoop home run doesn't offset how poor he is with the bat in his other 300+ Ab's.

I'm hoping for the best, but if manny is available for the playoffs, we need an obp guy in our lineup in the worst way. Weeks can generate runs.

[Il BuonO]

OAK an SF have made multiple moves to improve second base. OAK recently got Callaspo back.So, yeah it's not like us just willing to ride the horrid production out. I'm not sure San Diego really matters.

I'd love to see Schoop break out (even average ML production from this point forward) but I'm not really seeing anything in the approach to suggest he will. He occasionally gets some good pitches to handle (usually up in the zone) and drives them, but that's about it. But hey, I guess the team knows and sees a lot more than me and has their reasons.

He's got an awful approach. His walk rate is a pitiful 2.9% and ML average is 7.9%. But hey, the time to send him down has passed. If you look at the heatmaps on FG his hot zone is on balls away. It's because he had such a long swing. He needs to be able to bring his hands in and he can't do it.

They don't seem to concerned about the year of control and it would have been the perfect opportunity earlier in the year, but at this point he plays good defense so what is to be gained.

If he gets some help over the winter to focus on it perhaps it can be worked out. If not, send him down next year if he starts out slow after a couple months.

We have a six game lead with him at 2B.

[El Gordo]

He's got an awful approach. His walk rate is a pitiful 2.9% and ML average is 7.9%. But hey, the time to send him down has passed. If you look at the heatmaps on FG his hot zone is on balls away. It's because he had such a long swing. He needs to be able to bring his hands in and he can't do it.

They don't seem to concerned about the year of control and it would have been the perfect opportunity earlier in the year, but at this point he plays good defense so what is to be gained.

If he gets some help over the winter to focus on it perhaps it can be worked out. If not, send him down next year if he starts out slow after a couple months.

We have a six game lead with him at 2B.

Yes but if Manny is out for a month or more, we have to carry his bat as well as whomever is at 3B plus C. That's too many outs in the lineup.

[Il BuonO]

Yes but if Manny is out for a month or more, we have to carry his bat as well as whomever is at 3B plus C. That's too many outs in the lineup.

Plus C? Yeah, that's been a black hole lately.