Are Tillman/Patton our top 2 pitching prospects now?

[Crazysilver03]

which of these guys (in any) could develop into a number 1 or 2 guy on a staff? Seems to me we have a bunch of 3-4 guys, but maybe some of them could break through if things go well.

Penn, Spoone, Erbe, and Tillman have the highest ceilings from the scouting reports I have read. Erbe could be a #1 while the other three could be #2s.

[sector7g]

Penn, Spoone, Erbe, and Tillman have the highest ceilings from the scouting reports I have read. Erbe could be a #1 while the other three could be #2s.

I think you're doing Liz a disservice here. There is really no limit to his upside, infact he seems to be one of the few prospects we have that's under rated here. I think he gets in the rotation mid-season for keeps.

[wildcard]

Penn, Spoone, Erbe, and Tillman have the highest ceilings from the scouting reports I have read. Erbe could be a #1 while the other three could be #2s.

Crazysilver, I projected that Erbe could be as good as Tillman and got a lot of flack for it. I will be interested to see what posters say now that you are projecting that Erbe could be better than Tillman.

Tillman is the new shiny coin right now. I think some posters lean toward him as becoming better then the pitchers the O's had just because he is new.

[theobird]

Butler is going to move up the depth charts quickly.

I'd say

Liz

Tillman

Spoone

Patton

Olsen

Erbe

Arrieta

Butler

Penn

Hernandez

Bascom

Beato

Britton

Bergesen

Renshaw

Butler is the guy that makes the M's trade for me. His curve ball is going to be a special pitch. He has some mechanical issues, but it is Tony Butler who I think is going to be a fixture in our ML rotation soon.

[33rdst]

It's very difficult to determine where some of the new guys fit into our system because some of them have been rushed. It's hard to compare stats. Patton and Tillman for example, haven't shown the dominance of a Liz, Spoone or Erbe but they've been pitching as 20 year olds in AA, AAA, and sometimes in the majors. Patton doesn't appear to be a guy who will dominate hitters so I wouldn't list him among our best prospects but STATS don't tell the whole story on this guy.

[napbow]

I think people on this board are overlooking Beato. I expect him to make a serious jump in 08 with the return of the cutter.

Kinda sounds like the name of a sequel: Return of the Cutter

[Frobby]

Tillman is the new shiny coin right now. I think some posters lean toward him as becoming better then the pitchers the O's had just because he is new.

The truth is, none of us really know which of these guys will turn out to be the best. But that's why it's nice to have several of these high-ceiling guys. Chances are that they all won't reach their ceiling, but if one or two of them do, it really doesn't matter which one it turns out to be.

As to Tillman, what has me encouraged is how he finished the year: 3.15 ERA, 65 K's and 48 hits allowed in 54.1 IP over his last 10 starts. Not bad for a 19-year old kid in high A, especially the Califronia League which is a notorious hitters' league. He may or may not turn out better than Erbe, but he had a better year at the same age at the same level.

[mikezpen]

Based on his velocity and the overpowering games he threw-with control-early on, I'd say Erbe is better than any of them. Now maybe he had mechanical issues they had to work on (which I heard was a reason why he struggled last year). If his arm is ok (HOPE!), and he can straighten his mechanics out, I think he's numero uno except maybe for Tillman.

[oriole from cal]

At this point I have to ask: ARE you DHernandez, or a relative, or do you know him personally? Because it seems like 90% of your posts are advocating for him.

I can assure you that orioole26 is not DHernandez. I personally know DHernandez and he doesn't really care what the Hangouters think of him. He knows that all he needs to do is worry about himself and just go on the bump and prove that he belongs. He is so removed from this site!! He knows where he is at with all these pitchers, he's played with them and has seen most of them pitch, so he knows what he has to do!! I'm hoping that he has a great season like most of us do. I wish that orioole26 would cool his jets when it comes to David because it is embarassing for me to read his comments and others who have made fun. Anyway as far as I'm concern DHernandez should be considered in the mix of all the talent we have in this organization.

[Jammer7]

I can assure you that orioole26 is not DHernandez. I personally know DHernandez and he doesn't really care what the Hangouters think of him. He knows that all he needs to do is worry about himself and just go on the bump and prove that he belongs. He is so removed from this site!! He knows where he is at with all these pitchers, he's played with them and has seen most of them pitch, so he knows what he has to do!! I'm hoping that he has a great season like most of us do. I wish that orioole26 would cool his jets when it comes to David because it is embarassing for me to read his comments and others who have made fun. Anyway as far as I'm concern DHernandez should be considered in the mix of all the talent we have in this organization.

David has had some very impressive games, and stretches of games, and has progressed nicely in a fairly short time. I hope he finds the consistency he has lacked and refines his command with all of his pitches this year. In fact, I don't think you'll find any Hangouter who wishes David anything but the best, so why the big chip on your shoulder?

The prospect rankings and scouting reports are fluid things that can change quickly, and that is up to David...not Hangouters. There's no reason that David couldn't be in the top 5 ahead of the rest if he can command his reportoire of pitches effectively in the strike zone. David certainly has the stuff.

[Jammer7]

For me, it would be:

1. Radhames Liz - gets the nod because of pure stuff and he has improved in the last year tremendously

2. Chorye Spoone - bulldog, winner...reminds me of Curt Schilling that way

3. Chris Tillman - 20 yoa and very talented, let's see what he does this year at a higher level before we annoint him our best pitching prospect

4. Troy Patton - lost velocity concerns me some, but he knows how to pitch

5. Garrett Olson - nerves and lost confidence aside, knows how to pitch and has command...normally

After that: Arrieta, Bascom, Erbe, Beato, D. Hernandez, T. Butler, Z. Britton, R. Bierd, Hoey, B. McCrory, K. Mickolio, J. Johnson, B. Bergesen, J. Berken and K. Schmidt.

[oriole from cal]

David has had some very impressive games, and stretches of games, and has progressed nicely in a fairly short time. I hope he finds the consistency he has lacked and refines his command with all of his pitches this year. In fact, I don't think you'll find any Hangouter who wishes David anything but the best, so why the big chip on your shoulder?

The prospect rankings and scouting reports are fluid things that can change quickly, and that is up to David...not Hangouters. There's no reason that David couldn't be in the top 5 ahead of the rest if he can command his reportoire of pitches effectively in the strike zone. David certainly has the stuff.

Sorry if I came with that impression. That wasn't my intent. I'm sure every Hangouters hopes that DHernandez does exceed all expectations and makes the big club and succeeds, in fact we wish that all our prospect to succeed because then our beloved Orioles would be better!!

[wildcard]

For me, it would be:

1. Radhames Liz - gets the nod because of pure stuff and he has improved in the last year tremendously

2. Chorye Spoone - bulldog, winner...reminds me of Curt Schilling that way

3. Chris Tillman - 20 yoa and very talented, let's see what he does this year at a higher level before we annoint him our best pitching prospect

4. Troy Patton - lost velocity concerns me some, but he knows how to pitch

5. Garrett Olson - nerves and lost confidence aside, knows how to pitch and has command...normally

After that: Arrieta, Bascom, Erbe, Beato, D. Hernandez, T. Butler, Z. Britton, R. Bierd, Hoey, B. McCrory, K. Mickolio, J. Johnson, B. Bergesen, J. Berken and K. Schmidt.

Where would you place Penn and Albers in all that? I know you probably left them out because they are not true rookies.

[WV O's]

What is Beato's ceiling? And it surprises me some that Chorye Spoone is so high on most lists. Is his stuff that good?

[Jammer7]

Where would you place Penn and Albers in all that? I know you probably left them out because they are not true rookies.

That's a tough one, because my list is based on production, MiL command, MiL level they pitched at and ceiling. I tend to put more weight on production at higher levels and command rather than pure ceiling.

I've read some great stuff on Albers and never seen him in person; and who knows what we're going to see with Hayden Penn after the bad luck appendectomy and the injury and all of the time off. They have both been highly thought of in the recent past obviously, and have the potential to be at around #3 on my list. I want to think that Hayden will come back with a vengeance, but I'd be more inclined to put Penn at #6.

Albers might be around #8 or so. His delivery is not real smooth and requires a bit of effort, and his command has been on and off. He throws hard and pitches inside effectively. Needs a better changeup and to change speeds on his breaking ball a little better.

All that said, with the new pitching coach Kranitz, they could both really flourish this season and be the dominant #2-3 starters that scouts projected a while back. I'd like to see both make the team this year as 5th starter/long relief, but I think Penn will almost certainly be ticketed for Norfolk. I'd rather see them pitch than see a Steve Trachsel come back.