Ed Rogers attempts a Coup D'etat

[berettafan]

It's only awkward for him if he wants the position.

A company man would sit down with PA immediately and make a decision.

Unless there is some way to show that this mess in no way affects the team AND company.

[InsideCoroner]

The only way I would agree to let DD go to the Jays is if the Orioles would get four outs per inning in every future game against Toronto.

[tntoriole]

What Ed Rogers, Chairman of the Toronto Blue Jay is attempting has never been done before. Never has a major league baseball team stolen a successful GM from another team and at the same time put a division champion in the same division at a disadvantage by leaving them without a GM. Its never happen that I can find.

Rogers motive is fairly transparent. The Blue Jays have not been to the playoffs in 22 years. Their GM Alex Anthopoulos is in the final year of his contract. Either he wins or he is gone. He has finished 4th, 4th, 4th, 5th and 3rd. The odd are not with him.

The ploy of a promotion of Dan Duquette is a ruse. Yes, he may get a President's title but titles in baseball don't mean much. Dan will likely become the President and GM in waiting. If Anthopoulos fails to make the playoff in 2015 and Dan is the new Blue Jays GM. While Peter Angelos is being made out to be the bad guy for keeping Dan from a promotion the truth is that its likely a lateral move in disguise.

Some may bring up Theo Epstein's move from Boston to Chicago with one year left on his contract. But, in fact, its nothing like what Rogers is trying to pull off. Epstein was in a power struggle with President Larry Lucchino in Boston and they were glad to see Epstein go. The Red Sox granted permission for Epstein to interview. Ben Cherington was the Assistant GM and ready to be promoted in Boston. Not at all like what is happening with Duquette. There is no one ready to take Dan's job. No one with the GM experience that knows the Orioles.

Most of the time when a GM moves from one team to another its because he has failed in his current job. Walt Jocketty was let go from the Cards before he went to the Reds. Sandy Alderson spent time in the Commissioner's office between move from the A's to the Padres to the Mets. You don't find successful GMs stolen from a team the way this is being attempted.

So lets call this what it is. A Heist. An Attempted Robbery of a division rival that is meant to disadvantage them. And the only thing that stands in the way of it being successful in Peter Angelos and his four year contract with Dan. I hope he prevails.

Andy Macphail was the hottest GM in baseball in 1994. He had engineered the Twins to two World Series titles. He was stolen away by a similar offer of a promotion and a lot more money from a media conglomerate (Tribune) to move to the Cubs and the Twins got Hector Trinidad (who never made the majors). This kind of compensation process obviously happened with Theo, but it also happened when Lou Piniella wanted to move to Tampa when he was under contract to Seattle and the Rays sent Randy Winn in return. Winn was a very good player (had just finished .821 OPS full season at 28 for the Rays). I wonder what we would ask if we were going to trade Buck. God forbid.

Other strange examples would include Bill Belichick leaving Jets after one day to go to the Patriots. Jets received a number one draft pick in compensation (Shaun Ellis). The Oakland Raiders (Al Davis) extracted four first and second round picks and 8 million in exchange for Tampa Bay being allowed to steal away Jon Gruden as head coach. In 1976, Charley Finley of the As let his under contract manager, Chuck Tanner, go to the Pirates for Manny Sanguillen and 100,000 dollars.

I do agree that this is very unusual and that Toronto should be severely sanctioned if there is absolutely any evidence of any type of contact with DD's agent or him.

[Aristotelian]

The only way I would agree to let DD go to the Jays is if the Orioles would get four outs per inning in every future game against Toronto.

What is the point of forcing him to stay? Do we really want a guy who does not want to be here? Let him go, take same compensation, and move on. Let's talk about who might succeed him.

[weams]

It's only awkward for him if he wants the position.

A company man ....

Let's make it clear, He would love to be free of obligation and make five times the money at a very prestigious position. One that he has always aspired to. Before his decade in the wilderness.

Company man? Dan would consider that term and insult. He is very talented and very loyal and honest. The one team he was hopelessly devoted to broke his heart. Peter wants him to stay, and he will gladly, willingly, and well - serve out his term of duty.

[weams]

What is the point of forcing him to stay? Do we really want a guy who does not want to be here? Let him go, take same compensation, and move on. Let's talk about who might succeed him.

Dan Duquette would love to stay. If he can't make five times the money at a much more prestigious level. Heck, he'd get to wear expensive draperies. If that is not possible, he would sure like to continue in one of the thirty jobs available for what he does. He likes Baltimore. He'd love to be a corporate president.

[tntoriole]

What is the point of forcing him to stay? Do we really want a guy who does not want to be here? Let him go, take same compensation, and move on. Let's talk about who might succeed him.

Potter has never been one who has played very well with other owners trying to do what Toronto and MLB are trying to do here. He has been the one to tell his employees when they may leave (see Pat Gillick, Davey Johnson, etc. etc.), not the other way 'round. It may not be the most civil of behavioral styles, but it is what it is. And don't think for a minute that this is just about DD. It is about MASN and the All Star game, etc. etc. Nobody is "forcing" DD to do anything. He could quit the Orioles today (and, of course, then forgo the rest of his contract) and then go sign with Toronto. But he has not done that. Because as of today, DD believes that staying here outweighs resigning. Which is the way many people in the real world do their jobs- effectively, but also considering other options if they are possible.

[mdbdotcom]

What is the point of forcing him to stay? Do we really want a guy who does not want to be here? Let him go, take same compensation, and move on. Let's talk about who might succeed him.

If the O's are considering letting him go, I certainly hope they drag this out until they have a plan in place.

[Tryptamine]

If Angelo does indeed refuse to let Duquette leave for what is a clear promotion you can be sure that that is going to have a negative effect on hiring FO people in the future. None of the top talent is going to come to a place where they can't leave for promotions as they can do with pretty much every other team.

[SeaBird]

Potter has never been one who has played very well with other owners trying to do what Toronto and MLB are trying to do here. He has been the one to tell his employees when they may leave (see Pat Gillick, Davey Johnson, etc. etc.), not the other way 'round. It may not be the most civil of behavioral styles, but it is what it is. And don't think for a minute that this is just about DD. It is about MASN and the All Star game, etc. etc. Nobody is "forcing" DD to do anything. He could quit the Orioles today (and, of course, then forgo the rest of his contract) and then go sign with Toronto. But he has not done that. Because as of today, DD believes that staying here outweighs resigning. Which is the way many people in the real world do their jobs- effectively, but also considering other options if they are possible.

Yes. He can quit. But he can't just quit and go sign with Toronto tomorrow. He'd be required to sit on his rear end for the duration of the contract he abandoned. Then he can go job hunting and seek new employment elsewhere.

[InsideCoroner]

He could quit the Orioles today (and, of course, then forgo the rest of his contract) and then go sign with Toronto. But he has not done that. Because as of today, DD believes that staying here outweighs resigning.

No, he could not do that. Such contracts are exclusive and have non-compete clauses that prevent you from just quitting and going to work for a competitor. Just like how a player can't quit a team and forego the rest of their contract and go sign with another, better team. He could quit, sure, but he'd have to sit on his hands for the duration of the agreement unless an arrangement would be reached with the Orioles.

[mdbdotcom]

Potter has never been one who has played very well with other owners trying to do what Toronto and MLB are trying to do here. He has been the one to tell his employees when they may leave (see Pat Gillick, Davey Johnson, etc. etc.), not the other way 'round. It may not be the most civil of behavioral styles, but it is what it is. And don't think for a minute that this is just about DD. It is about MASN and the All Star game, etc. etc. Nobody is "forcing" DD to do anything. He could quit the Orioles today (and, of course, then forgo the rest of his contract) and then go sign with Toronto. But he has not done that. Because as of today, DD believes that staying here outweighs resigning. Which is the way many people in the real world do their jobs- effectively, but also considering other options if they are possible.

1. Gillick left when his contract was up. He wasn't shown the door by Angelos. He had no desire to return.

2. Duquette can't just resign from the Orioles and then sign with the Blue Jays.

[InsideCoroner]

SeaBird, my twin separated at birth, apparently.

[tntoriole]

If Angelo does indeed refuse to let Duquette leave for what is a clear promotion you can be sure that that is going to have a negative effect on hiring FO people in the future. None of the top talent is going to come to a place where they can't leave for promotions as they can do with pretty much every other team.

I disagree. Orioles will have Buck and a winning team and an owner who (not to be morbid about this) is not going to be deciding these matters forever. We went through all that on this board for months before DD was hired and look how that turned out. Not going to be a problem. DD will likely get a nice raise (maybe even a further extension) and he will be a happy camper. It does make me wonder about the exact language of DD's contract. There must be a no compete clause of some sort (meaning if DD just quit, then he could not sign with another club for the duration of the extension). It always seems to be referred to as a "gentlemen's agreement" to not block promotion moves to another club. Which may mean that there is language in the contract that would keep DD from being able to work in baseball until 2019 if he quits the Orioles (unless released by the owner). Now, if that was in the contract, then DD is the one who signed it and signed an extension. He does contracts for a living and surely knew what he was signing, so I don't see how this would have any effect on recruiting others.

[weams]

“He works for the Orioles. He has got a contract. He is very sophisticated and he understands, respects and comprehends that.”