Are the O's giving it their best shot? Or should they?

[ArtVanDelay]

And Davies might be a good pitcher. So which is it? Are you trying to win or are you trying to collect prospects? Because if it is the latter, you shouldn't have made any trades and been a seller at the deadline.

I was against the Davies trade.

[EagleOriole]

Why get rid of Garcia three weeks short of controlling him for the foreseeable future? That is really short-sighted. Why is Mancini a better option than someone that is OPSing .880 in AAA?

[DrungoHazewood]

They really like a 22 year old that has four pitches, never pitched above A ball to this year, doesn't get hammered by major leaguers, that can throw 98. You are right, it is not data driven.

All of that stuff you just mentioned is data. Just like when folks talk about sabermetrics missing the stuff that's not WAR or OPS... sabermetrics is the search for truth in baseball. Scouting reports are a way to get at the truth. If you're throwing away good information you're not doing it right.

Of course there are those who see gaps in between hard numbers as a place to wedge in some stuff made up out of whole cloth and legends and the like.

[Can_of_corn]

They really like a 22 year old that has four pitches, never pitched above A ball to this year, doesn't get hammered by major leaguers, that can throw 98. You are right, it is not data driven.

They guy with the 7.53 FIP doesn't get hammered by major leaguers?

And we haven't seen much 98.

[DrungoHazewood]

Why get rid of Garcia three weeks short of controlling him for the foreseeable future? That is really short-sighted. Why is Mancini a better option than someone that is OPSing .880 in AAA?

Who is OPSing .880 in AAA? Lake? I wouldn't count on an .876 the second time repeating the Iowa Cubs translating well to the majors. That is the same place Taylor Teagarden is OPSing .801. But then again, Mancini isn't all that likely to hit .360 in the majors, either.

[DrungoHazewood]

They guy with the 7.53 FIP doesn't get hammered by major leaguers?

And we haven't seen much 98.

His average fastball in Baltimore has been 93, according to Fangraphs. Which leads to a second-order kind of scouting faith. Neither the numbers nor the fastball has seemed like something you'd go out of your way to keep.

[backwardsk]

His average fastball in Baltimore has been 93, according to Fangraphs. Which leads to a second-order kind of scouting faith. Neither the numbers nor the fastball has seemed like something you'd go out of your way to keep.

Does that average include his pitches pre-injury? What was he throwing on Friday night?

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[Can_of_corn]

Does that average include his pitches pre-injury? What was he throwing on Friday night?

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Brooks has him at topping out at 96.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=592329&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=08/10/2015&s_type=2

[sportsfan8703]

Givens shouldn't have been sent down in the first place. (McFarland). He should come back up at the 10 day mark.

Hold on to Garcia for the next three weeks.

Mancini for Lake is fine. Not sure if he'll hit better though.

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Agreed and on the OP. Good thread. We could finagle the roster to get Givens up here. Mancini and Givens have the most upside of any of the internal options. For a team that desperately needs some unexpected contributions to win, they are what we need to turn to.

I'd like to keep Garcia though. It's only 20 more games. We could really go without Flaherty for 2-3 weeks. We're saving him for an emergency situation, meanwhile we're losing games because we need immediate offense(Mancini) and another BP(Givens) arm.

At this point it's obvious that Mancini is coming up on September 1st. If not they would have moved him to Norfolk by now. They're keeping him in Bowie to keep him close and not to subject him to that ballpark. So just make the move now and see what the guy can do.

[EagleOriole]

Who is OPSing .880 in AAA? Lake? I wouldn't count on an .876 the second time repeating the Iowa Cubs translating well to the majors. That is the same place Taylor Teagarden is OPSing .801. But then again, Mancini isn't all that likely to hit .360 in the majors, either.

I wouldn't expect his OPS in AAA to translate at the ML level - just like I wouldn't expect Mancini to hit anywhere near .360 at ML level. I was wondering why Mancini would be a better option than someone OPSing .880 in AAA this season. Because Lake was OPSing .880 at AAA this year, correct?

[Rene88]

I was against the Davies trade.

Oh good, cool. My point is pick one strategy or the other. I think Wildcard was saying something similar.

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[DrungoHazewood]

I wouldn't expect his OPS in AAA to translate at the ML level - just like I wouldn't expect Mancini to hit anywhere near .360 at ML level. I was wondering why Mancini would be a better option than someone OPSing .880 in AAA this season. Because Lake was OPSing .880 at AAA this year, correct?

.876 in a half season in AAA, in a very friendly place for a hitter. His third try at the PCL. There's a lot of context to be adjusted for.

[SteveA]

I don't agree that you have to go to an extreme and either go all in to win this year and have no regard for the future, or have no regard for winning this year and doing everything for the future. It would be nice if life were like that, but it isn't. There is ALWAYS a balancing act.

The going-to-extremes to keep Garcia is certainly odd. If the guy turns out to be a superstar, then it will have been worth it. But if they are just hanging on to him because of a hoarder mentality that makes them wait too long to give up on ANY potential asset, and it is hurting the team, well, that's a different story. I have to hope they really think he can be something special long term. I'm not enough of a scout to evaluate that hope.

It's a tightrope. They have been too close to the race to give up (and I'm also not sure they could have gotten significant value for their asses; O'Day certainly would have brought something; I'm not sure Wieters or Davis would have brought more real value than the comp pick). They didn't have the minor league talent to make big pickups for the season, especially with their tolp two prospects untradable due to injury. So they made a decision to make a marginal improvement with Parra. They decided that the difference between Hunter and Roe/Givens/whoever would not be significant enough to hurt them, and that the roster flexibility it would add (which we have seen used about three times already) might outweigh that.

I see lots of gray areas, while I know the original poster wants a black and white answer. Well, I can't give one.

[EagleOriole]

.876 in a half season in AAA, in a very friendly place for a hitter. His third try at the PCL. There's a lot of context to be adjusted for.

Agreed, there is context and there is still no reason to think that Mancini will hit better here at the ML level than Lake. BTW, Lake in a small sample size has shown he can at least be a decent platoon option against lefties:

.287/.335/.454/.789

I wonder what his usage rate was with the Cubs as well - was he given consistent at-bats?

[sportsfan8703]

Agreed, there is context and there is still no reason to think that Mancini will hit better here at the ML level than Lake. BTW, Lake in a small sample size has shown he can at least be a decent platoon option against lefties:

.287/.335/.454/.789

I wonder what his usage rate was with the Cubs as well - was he given consistent at-bats?

We'll get a chance to see his defense in person. I'm hoping to see a CF'er playing LF. That's basically what we have with Parra in a corner spot. If Lake can hit LHP and play good to great D in LF/RF, then he is a valuable piece.