Duquette on Re-signing Davis and Offseason Priorities

[El Gordo]

I don't think I have 'edit' privs.

You accused me of not being a family man. I said, I don't think being able to afford tickets, regardless of the cost, makes me, or anyone else any less of a family man.

DD used family affordability as an excuse for a reason that the team refuses to take a risk on an overpriced player. Many fans are happy that the Orioles don't mortgage the future, yet it doesn't appear we have anything to look forward to next year. I think 2015 should have been the year to open checkbooks, the timing was right. It didn't happen and I don't see enough talent around here for a "next man up" approach.

Do you have a family? If so how much does it cost you to take them to a ballgame? Are you able to pay 3 times that much? That's what you would pay AT the ASMBM.

[mcgraw238]

Fact is the market can't support higher ticket prices. The club doesn't come anywhere near selling out. This whole conversation has gone way off track by a brief comment made by DD about keeping the experience affordable. As an aside, I recall approximately 12 years ago PA referring to an O's game as entertainment...Basically, reading between the lines it was that the club could not compete in the AL East but going to OPCY was a form of local entertainment. I doubt I could ever find that quote but I find it interesting to hear this recent reference to family entertainment.

[birdsofprey02]

Like I said before, it's already super expensive and not relatively affordable for a regular family of 4.

This conversation isn't going anywhere so I'll just end my argument by saying I hope some of the young oriole players can step up, hope the pitching can regain its 2012-2014 form, and I hope DD hits the jackpot on a few affordable placeholders.

Clearly I'm not a Yankees fan and just sometimes wish the Orioles front office had some competitive fire from time to time.

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[Redskins Rick]

Like I said before, it's already super expensive and not relatively affordable for a regular family of 4.

This conversation isn't going anywhere so I'll just end my argument by saying I hope some of the young oriole players can step up, hope the pitching can regain its 2012-2014 form, and I hope DD hits the jackpot on a few affordable placeholders.

Clearly I'm not a Yankees fan and just sometimes wish the Orioles front office had some competitive fire from time to time.

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Baseball stopped being a family affordable sport several years ago, but the same can be said for the Movie Theater and just about everything else in the entertainment world like Disney, etc.

[DrungoHazewood]

Clearly I'm not a Yankees fan and just sometimes wish the Orioles front office had some competitive fire from time to time.

How do you know they don't? Why wouldn't you assume they do? If they had more competitive fire I guess that would convince Angelos to up the payroll by 50%?

[DrungoHazewood]

I'd pay an extra $5 per ticket without hesitation. Honestly, I'd still go if they doubled them, and if I lived in the Baltimore area I'd gladly pay double for season tickets. But then again I'd pay any amount of money for a World Series ticket even if it meant over drafting my checking account.

But you're an extreme outlier. I'd guess that a doubling of ticket prices would mean about a 50% decrease in the number sold.

[DrungoHazewood]

Baseball stopped being a family affordable sport several years ago, but the same can be said for the Movie Theater and just about everything else in the entertainment world like Disney, etc.

Then who goes to all the games? How is it that baseball teams average 30k or more a game for 2430 games a year? Certainly a young family of four with a single income near the US average isn't going to buy four season tickets. But they never did. They'll continue to do like my family did when I was a kid, and attend several games a year, often in the cheap seats with group deals. Which they can afford. Baseball's revenues have long been heavily based on corporate ticket/box sales, and cable fees from subscribers who would rather not pay them.

[25 Nuggets]

But you're an extreme outlier. I'd guess that a doubling of ticket prices would mean about a 50% decrease in the number sold.

Yeah, I mean, they have people whose job is to study this stuff... working for the Orioles no less. From a business perspective they're "on the ball".

Also, just a reminder, the team can have around $40 mil to play with and not increase the major league payroll one cent.

[Redskins Rick]

Then who goes to all the games? How is it that baseball teams average 30k or more a game for 2430 games a year? Certainly a young family of four with a single income near the US average isn't going to buy four season tickets. But they never did. They'll continue to do like my family did when I was a kid, and attend several games a year, often in the cheap seats with group deals. Which they can afford. Baseball's revenues have long been heavily based on corporate ticket/box sales, and cable fees from subscribers who would rather not pay them.

It helps to have several million fans in the area to draw from.

You are correct, family of 4, normally do not buy season tickets, but it does cut down on the number of games they attend a year.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, I mean, they have people whose job is to study this stuff... working for the Orioles no less. From a business perspective they're "on the ball".

I think that the baseline assumption has to be that MLB ticket prices are set reasonably close what's necessary to maximize revenues. The models they use to determine prices could be wrong, but I don't see a reason to think that. This is a company with several hundred $million in annual revenues with 60+ years of data. I have to think they have some grasp on their market and its ability to buy tickets.

[TAMC]

But you're an extreme outlier. I'd guess that a doubling of ticket prices would mean about a 50% decrease in the number sold.

I have 4 tickets in a 29 game plan and have had for more than 20 years. I would not have 4 tickets if the price doubled. I would have to question it if there were a 20% rise or so. I don't know where my cutoff would be, but there is one well before double.

[Nevermore]

It doesn't sound like you are a family man. At least I hope you aren't. Sounds to me like you should be a Yankee fan. They have all the money in the world to spend and their ticket and hot dog prices reflect that. It's only 30 bucks round trip on the Bolt bus to NYC and tickets though expensive are easy to get, nobody here can afford them except corporations. Bu you probably don' take buses what with your private jet.

Wow. Talk about over-hyperbolizing (is that a word) someone's post because you disagree with it. Can't you simply explain why you disagree without distorting what the poster was saying? Saying that someone "should be a Yankee fan" because you disagree with them goes beyond civil discussion on an Orioles topic.

[turtlebowl]

My take is the O's have decided to compete in this market by being the cheapest alternative when it comes to MLB in the New York/Washington corridor. This is the safest way for them to guarantee that they are going to be profitable.

If they raised tickets $3 a seat across the board and raised payroll it would likely pay for itself initially with named players signing here and hopefully a highly competitive team and as a result atttendance and interest would spike. However if 3 years from now the team is struggling and we have a $150 million payroll it could cause a problem if people stop showing up because of cost and lack of production on the field.

So in my opinion this excuse of lower payroll and cheaper ticket prices is a very well researched safe formula for the team to be profitable not only now but long term. I certainly think they have options that could allow them to raise payroll but they chose to play it safe.

One last thing, I in no way feel that the prices are kept lower as some sort of gift from Angelo's to the community. This is all about the bottom line!

[DrungoHazewood]

If they raised tickets $3 a seat across the board and raised payroll it would likely pay for itself initially with named players signing here and hopefully a highly competitive team and as a result atttendance and interest would spike.

That math doesn't work. $3 per ticket at current attendance raises about an additional $7.5M a year. Or enough to pay for half of Nelson Cruz' salary, or maybe a third of a year of a Manny extension or Davis contract. Or maybe enough to pay Darren O'Day. And that's before the consideration that raising prices probably lowers demand, so you're probably going to see flat revenues after the increase. As I said elsewhere, you have to assume that prices are currently set to maximize revenues.

[utvolzac]

I think it involves more around timing... Last few years were awesome. 2015 had the making of great things, were were so close to the World Series, just missing 1 or 2 pieces. We ALL knew the impending free agent situation. 2015 shoulda been the "all-in" year. Instead, we are going to lose key players from 2012-2015 and the future looks bleak.

We're all proud of what this team has accomplished recently, but disappointed there wasn't a stronger push for 2015, given the expiring contracts.

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This. Finding a happy medium in the budget is fine, but it needs to be flexible depending on the situation.

When your coming off an ALCS appearance and the core of your team is filled with pending free agents, you don't suddenly go into cost cutting mode during your last shot at a championship.

Letting Cruz walk

Replacing Miller with a couple Rule V guys

Replacing Markakis with a laundry list of DFA players

2015 was unacceptable. Budget be damned, under those circumstances. We should have been all in. Especially knowing how much money would be coming off the books in '16.

I could have accepted a rebuilding process next year had we made a legitimate effort this year.

Instead, all the good faith I had in ownership over the last few years is gone. To the point where I'm about to sit it out until Angelos is gone and re-evaluate when new ownership takes over. I'm done spending money on tickets, merchandise, etc knowing that our owner has no intention of using that money for winning.