Duquette on Re-signing Davis and Offseason Priorities

[backwardsk]

No way Angelos considers doubling an employee's salary. If they finished 3rd with him at $12 million, how valuable was he really (thinks Peter)?

So you don't think they'll offer Britton or Machado arbitration?

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[mcgraw238]

Do you really want a list of the several dozen players making 15-20M a year or more who were essentially zeros this year? Werth is just a local favorite. I'm still interested in why it's deal-breaker for Duquette to have eaten $20M in short-term DFA's this year, but it's just the price of trying hard to win when you're carrying a CC Sabathia for $23M for 1 WAR. The Phils had probably $75M? $100M? in useless contracts this year.

Wasting corporate assets whether short term or long term is still waste. I'll give you that its better to do it on the short term variety rather than the long term given a choice. You can list all the terrible long term contracts if you want too, however, I still don't see where folks in general are advocating the Jason Werth contract as a commitment to winning or the CC contract for that matter, so I view this as essentially a straw argument used to blanket what was a poor allocation of corporate resources. It's your prerogative I suppose to consistently label this behavior to those who desire the club to be proactive on a number of fronts when the reality is that the "sign all the free agents" crowd is fringy minority. I've been around politics a long time so I know its a semi-effective debating tactic. I'll be perfectly happy if DD has an impressive offseason without executing a single long term contract, but I think expecting something of that nature while positioning the club to return to post season will be extremely challenging given the state of the club's farm system and the competition from other club's to secure talent. So what's the plan if the goal is to get back into the playoffs in 2016? I've seen the word "re-tool" used multiple times, what does that look like?

[abbott]

It's nice that you don't let your personal animus for Angelos get in the way of making a reasoned argument.

Well someone has to balance things out. This board ought to be renamed angeloshangout. Too many people concerned with ownerships' finances and not the Orioles

[mcgraw238]

Well someone has to balance things out. This board ought to be renamed angeloshangout. Too many people concerned with ownerships' finances and not the Orioles

Well you certainly can't ignore budgets, market sizes, resources, etc. when discussing professional baseball. I have a lot of issues with the way the organization is run and I think the window for competitive baseball will close if things don't improve, however, there is no doubt that the club is somewhere in the middle of the pack when it comes to overall resources. There's plenty of resources available to compete but you can't have a dreadful farm system and little presence in the July 2 market.

[OFFNY]

Well, someone has to balance things out. This board ought to be renamed angeloshangout. Too many people concerned with ownerships' finances, and not the Orioles.

Right.

Because the overwhelming majority of the posters here on the OH have always vehemently supported Peter Angelos throughout his tenure as the team owner.

A maverick like yourself has a lot of balls to do what you do, criticizing Peter Angelos when you know how beloved he is here.

[mdbdotcom]

Well someone has to balance things out. This board ought to be renamed angeloshangout. Too many people concerned with ownerships' finances and not the Orioles

And your screen name should be changed to MagicalThinker.

[Going Underground]

Right.

Because the overwhelming majority of the posters here on the OH have always vehemently supported Peter Angelos throughout his tenure as the team owner.

A maverick like yourself has a lot of balls to do what you do, criticizing Peter Angelos when you know how beloved he is here.

I am an Eunuch so I don't appreciate that remark.I am just waiting for Oriole Fanfest and making season ticket holders buy tickets way in advance. Make people buy before we know the direction of the team.That would be a kick in rhe balls but I don't have to worry.

[weams]

Well someone has to balance things out. This board ought to be renamed angeloshangout. Too many people concerned with ownerships' finances and not the Orioles

We are not here to criticize the board or it's posters. If you can not get along with those that post here, I'd say there is probably a better place for you to hangout. Feel free to criticize the Orioles or the MLB, leave the people here and the members of this site out of your critical sphere.

Seriously, don't criticize any posters.

[weams]

Well you certainly can't ignore budgets, market sizes, resources, etc. when discussing professional baseball. I have a lot of issues with the way the organization is run and I think the window for competitive baseball will close if things don't improve, however, there is no doubt that the club is somewhere in the middle of the pack when it comes to overall resources. There's plenty of resources available to compete but you can't have a dreadful farm system and little presence in the July 2 market.

Pretty strong post.

[25 Nuggets]

Pretty strong post.

It flabbergasts me that Toronto's farm system is still ranked ahead of Baltimore's after trading away, what, 15 prospects in two years? Most of the team's woes would be solved by having a strong farm. With an upgraded spring training facility and a uniform developmental approach -- I don't get it. And the minor league teams are generally winning too, but that doesn't seem to matter.

[rd421]

It flabbergasts me that Toronto's farm system is still ranked ahead of Baltimore's after trading away, what, 15 prospects in two years? Most of the team's woes would be solved by having a strong farm. With an upgraded spring training facility and a uniform developmental approach -- I don't get it. And the minor league teams are generally winning too, but that doesn't seem to matter.

What is the point of developing talent if once they get good you let them walk because they cost too much?

[Can_of_corn]

What is the point of developing talent if once they get good you let them walk because they cost too much?

Because you get to have them play for you for six seasons at artificially reduced rates.

[Can_of_corn]

It seems pretty obvious, right?

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And by then most of them are pretty close to the point when they start to decline.

As long as you don't get emotionally attached to people you don't really know and who have no idea who you are it isn't a big deal when they leave.

[mcneck]

Dan Duquette has given O's fans four years of the winningest baseball in the AL. Still I would like to see some changes in his approach to building a winnings team. (No, its not about money).

1) In most cases, make a decision before a player's walk year to trade him or exend him and execute that strategy.

2) As much as possible, stop trading for rentals.

3) If an O's prospect is in Baseball America's Top 100, don't trade him.

Here is why:

1) In most cases, make a decision before a player's walk year to trade him or extend him and execute that strategy.

The Rays effectively maintain talent by trading players a year before they become FA. They do it for budget reasons. Its helps them maintain a pool of major league talent. The O's are in a better position to execute this strategy then Tampa because the O's have a bigger budget. That should allow the O's to sign more long term players.

This philosophy would not have worked for Wieters or Davis but it would have worked for Norris and O'Day. Wieters was injured and Davis was coming off a bad year. Their trade value was down. The extension does not have to be long. Extend them another year if they will agree to it. If the O's went to O'Day before the 2015 season and said we would like to extend him for another year at 7m, do you think he would have done it? Extend them longer if its in the clubs interest.

2) As much as possible, stop trading for rentals.

Even good teams do one year rentals at the July trade deadline. But we do see other teams trade for players that have another year or more of team control left. This seems to be a much better practice whenever it can be accomplished. I hate seeing both the rental and the prospect used to acquire him leave the O's within months.

3) If the O's prospect is in Baseball America's Top 100, don't trade him.

Baseball America Top 100 prospects have a decent chance of being good long term players. Not all will make it but the odds are better with those guys than most. I think O's management should be able to assess which players has a decent chance to having an impact or the team in the future and not trade him.

We have seen two incidents where the O's traded players that the O's knew had a lot of talent. Arrieta and Ed Rod. Arrieta had an option year left and was never tried as a reliever which would have been another way to have him develop. A new pitching coach probably would have helped also. Ed Rod was known to have a lot of talent. The O's should be stubborn in not trading their best prospects.

This doesn't mean that high draft choices should never be traded. There is risk in that but O's management has to be better at assessing who will have an impact on the team in the future and who will not.

The Cards traded 1st round draft choice Rob Kaminsky to the Indians for Brandon Moss. Good organizations do make trade high draft choices but its the management's ability to assess the player's future that appears to be critical. Maybe I am expecting too much and then again, maybe not.

What do you think of these ideas?

Agreed the Orioles should start acting more like a small market team although that would probably mean goodbye Buck.

[weams]

What is the point of developing talent if once they get good you let them walk because they cost too much?

Because they get older? And they are not as good?