Manny's defense at SS

[Frobby]

Over the weekend, Manny passed JJ in games played at SS this season. Manny has 22 starts and 226 innings under his belt this year, while JJ has made 20 starts and 188 innings.

Among players with 180 innings or more of playing SS this year, Hardy ranks 3rd in UZR/150 at 26, while Manny ranks 4th at 17. In Rtot/yr, Hardy is at 20, Manny is at 14.

In other words, we have two outstanding defensive shortstops on this team. Hardy is the steadier of the two, while Manny has more propensity to make errors but also more ability to do something spectacular, like yesterday's play where he slid on the OF grass to corral a bouncer up the middle, did a 360 while getting to his feet, then fired a strike to 1B with Chinese mustard on it.

I'm looking forward to having Hardy back, because it makes our left-side infield defense the best in baseball and we don't have to endure either Alvarez's pathetic defense or Flaherty/Janish's pathetic hitting. But there's little doubt that Manny is capable of being an elite defensive SS, based on the sample we've seen (and yes, 226 innings is a very small sample, but it's a lot bigger than what we got to see last year).

[25 Nuggets]

Hardy is the reason why I've never had an issue keeping Machado at 3B. It is unfortunate that he's missed so much time, and while he's gone I agree with the Machado-to-SS move.

The team should be looking at options down the road at 3B, provided they keep Machado.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm not sure why anybody would have ever doubted Manny wouldn't be great at SS? I get the "yeah, but with him at 3b, you have the best defensive left-side in baseball" argument. I didn't like the Hardy contract, but I at least got the argument. But anybody who argued that Manny shouldn't move because he might not be good, just doesn't watch baseball. Everything about him translated to the position.

[Tx Oriole]

Over the weekend, Manny passed JJ in games played at SS this season. Manny has 22 starts and 226 innings under his belt this year, while JJ has made 20 starts and 188 innings.

Among players with 180 innings or more of playing SS this year, Hardy ranks 3rd in UZR/150 at 26, while Manny ranks 4th at 17. In Rtot/yr, Hardy is at 20, Manny is at 14.

In other words, we have two outstanding defensive shortstops on this team. Hardy is the steadier of the two, while Manny has more propensity to make errors but also more ability to do something spectacular, like yesterday's play where he slid on the OF grass to corral a bouncer up the middle, did a 360 while getting to his feet, then fired a strike to 1B with Chinese mustard on it.

I'm looking forward to having Hardy back, because it makes our left-side infield defense the best in baseball and we don't have to endure either Alvarez's pathetic defense or Flaherty/Janish's pathetic hitting. But there's little doubt that Manny is capable of being an elite defensive SS, based on the sample we've seen (and yes, 226 innings is a very small sample, but it's a lot bigger than what we got to see last year).

I do think Manny is best at 3rd for the O's. Having JJ come back will be great.

When is JJ coming back?

[PHRESH]

I'm curious how JJ's defense would translate to 3B. I imagine it would be good for him. Less range to cover.

[El Gordo]

I'm curious how JJ's defense would translate to 3B. I imagine it would be good for him. Less range to cover.

Why play the better SS at 3B and the best 3B at SS?

[Reboulet'sStache]

I'm curious how JJ's defense would translate to 3B. I imagine it would be good for him. Less range to cover.

I worry a little about his arm at 3B. But even more, his bat doesn't play at the position. His defense would need to be out of this world at the position to make up for the lack of offense from a premium offensive position.

[VTech]

I worry a little about his arm at 3B. But even more' date=' his bat doesn't play at the position. His defense would need to be out of this world at the position to make up for the lack of offense from a premium offensive position.[/quote']

I dont get the "his bat doesn't play at the position" argument. If your defense is better with Manny at SS and JJ at 3B than Manny at 3B and JJ at SS then why not do it? The lineup wouldn't change.

I'm not saying the defense would be better that way, just saying it for discussion purpose.

[Frobby]

I'm curious how JJ's defense would translate to 3B. I imagine it would be good for him. Less range to cover.

But he is still an elite defensive SS, so why worry about it? As I said, 3rd among all SS in MLB this year in UZR/150 (180 inning minimum). And he has been near the top every year.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I dont get the "his bat doesn't play at the position" argument. If your defense is better with Manny at SS and JJ at 3B than Manny at 3B and JJ at SS then why not do it? The lineup wouldn't change.

I'm not saying the defense would be better that way, just saying it for discussion purpose.

There's def. an argument that, if that is the situation you're stuck with, you do it. I'm sure the defense would be better, but I'd be curious, if, when Alvarez's bat comes around to his career norms, if the overall production wouldn't be better with him at 3B than Hardy?

To me, it would just be a further indictment against DD and his use of resources if Hardy ends up being the 3B. Because you had to know Machado was going to be a star at the position, and you had to know Hardy was going to battle injuries, or at least the risk of it was great. The idea that we're selling draft picks to clear salary while playing Hardy 12 to 14 million to play 3B, when he knew he had a future star at SS already on the team, would almost be too much.

[owknows]

There's def. an argument that' date=' if that is the situation you're stuck with, you do it. I'm sure the defense would be better, but I'd be curious, if, when Alvarez's bat comes around to his career norms, if the overall production wouldn't be better with him at 3B than Hardy?

To me, it would just be a further indictment against DD and his use of resources if Hardy ends up being the 3B. Because you had to know Machado was going to be a star at the position, and you had to know Hardy was going to battle injuries, or at least the risk of it was great. The idea that we're selling draft picks to clear salary while playing Hardy 12 to 14 million to play 3B, when he knew he had a future star at SS already on the team, would almost be too much.[/quote']

And to further your point... Long-term, it would probably be easier to find a strong bat with average defense at 3B, than at SS in free agency (assuming we're keeping Manny, and having to eventually replace JJ)

[calmunderfire]

I'd rather wait until Manny has played hundreds upon hundreds of games at SS to use metrics to further evaluate his defense at the position. With that said he clearly has more potential defensively than Hardy does at SS. That said, Hardy is still a very good shortstop.

The biggest reason I've supported putting Machado at SS is the fact that he can hit so well for a SS. It's hard to find a shortstop who can be an excellent hitter. At 3B it's easy relatively speaking.

Machado should be at SS. Hardy shouldn't have been resigned. And we should have put more effort into a finding a 3B.

[calmunderfire]

I was looking at Hardy's runs saved year by year and I'd be surprised if Machado couldn't consistently save over 10 runs a year at SS. Which is what Hardy seems to hover around with some better years and some worse.

[El Gordo]

Even if Alvarez found his bat the best case would be 1.5 ish WAR given his sub Mark Reynolds defense at 3B.

[Frobby]

I'd rather wait until Manny has played hundreds upon hundreds of games at SS to use metrics to further evaluate his defense at the position. With that said he clearly has more potential defensively than Hardy does at SS. That said, Hardy is still a very good shortstop.

The biggest reason I've supported putting Machado at SS is the fact that he can hit so well for a SS. It's hard to find a shortstop who can be an excellent hitter. At 3B it's easy relatively speaking.

Machado should be at SS. Hardy shouldn't have been resigned. And we should have put more effort into a finding a 3B.

Yeah maybe we should have paid Chase Headely 4/$52 mm like the Yankees did.

NOT!

Please tell me the 3B you would have liked to have signed in the 2014-15 offseason. What "effort" should we have made instead of signing a guy who has been a stalwart for this team?