TT: The Orioles are a mediocre team

[LAOSfan]

The problem with Wright is he thinks he has nothing to learn. And his stuff isn't better than Ubaldo's.

Yes, I heard Palmer mention this on the broadcast last week about moving him to the middle of the rubber. Palmer said he brought it up to Wallace and Wallace noted that Wright would not listen because he thought he was pitching just fine. Sounded like Wright does not take well to coaching/advice. Maybe he will listen now.

[atomic]

Mediocre last 45 games or not they would make the 1 game playoff if the season ended today. And are two games out of first place. A win tonight and they are one game back. Sure they have awful starting pitching. But they are 7th in the league in ERA so the rest of the league must have problems with pitching as well. Tampa is supposed to have such great pitching but they are actually doing worse in pitching than us. There are no great teams this year in the American League. Mediocre could be good enough.

[atomic]

Yep. With the new Wildcard system (which I like) it has brainwashed fans into being happy with mediocrity. Unless your team really stinks, you won't be out of a playoff spot coming July and August. And the Orioles have spent 150M to keep their fans happy with exactly this kind of team. Yep. I'm unrealistic. I would rather have a management team that is trying to put a championship team together not one that is merely "competitive" with a chance to be in "it" (the playoffs).

I rooted for a 1980 team that won 100 games and finished 2nd and didn't make the playoffs. Now, 87-90 wins gives you a pretty good shot.

The popular thinking is that you can build a team that is decent and they have a chance to make the playoffs and anything can happen. I guess I'm old fashioned. I still yearn for a team that is actually trying to build the best damn team they can, not for this year but in an attempt to put a champion together. I've enjoyed the last 4 years but we still haven't come close to a WS. A 4 game sweep in the LCS and knocked out in the first round by the Skanks. Anything could happen but it didn't come close to actually happening. I don't think there is anyone here who thinks we've had a championship caliber team over the last 4 years. The core is getting worse and there is little help on the horizon. Our current starting pitching problem is proof of that. Is there one pitcher in the minors who is a clear improvement over the dreck that we currently have? Hmm.

I am just glad they can win more than 69 games in a year now. Something they couldn't do under Andy Macphail. Championship??? I will take being in contention after the All Star break. If you want to go back to the season being over mid-June so you can try and re-build for 10 years or something looking for they mythical championship team I am not on-board.

[Frobby]

Yep. With the new Wildcard system (which I like) it has brainwashed fans into being happy with mediocrity. Unless your team really stinks, you won't be out of a playoff spot coming July and August. And the Orioles have spent 150M to keep their fans happy with exactly this kind of team. Yep. I'm unrealistic. I would rather have a management team that is trying to put a championship team together not one that is merely "competitive" with a chance to be in "it" (the playoffs).

I rooted for a 1980 team that won 100 games and finished 2nd and didn't make the playoffs. Now, 87-90 wins gives you a pretty good shot.

The popular thinking is that you can build a team that is decent and they have a chance to make the playoffs and anything can happen. I guess I'm old fashioned. I still yearn for a team that is actually trying to build the best damn team they can, not for this year but in an attempt to put a champion together. I've enjoyed the last 4 years but we still haven't come close to a WS. A 4 game sweep in the LCS and knocked out in the first round by the Skanks. Anything could happen but it didn't come close to actually happening. I don't think there is anyone here who thinks we've had a championship caliber team over the last 4 years. The core is getting worse and there is little help on the horizon. Our current starting pitching problem is proof of that. Is there one pitcher in the minors who is a clear improvement over the dreck that we currently have? Hmm.

I don't buy into the logic that being an 85-win "true talent" team that will be in the hunt through August and might make the playoffs if they get a few breaks and win 88-90 games and then have a puncher's chance in the postseason is "all a fan can ask." It is certainly better than suffering through 14 losing seasons in a row, though. Many Orioles fans still haven't fully recovered from that experience, and that's why being in contention still makes us pretty happy even if we aren't the '69 - '71 Orioles or even the '79-'83 Orioles.

I think the 2014 team was pretty damned good. The KC team that beat us was a wild card team that got hot at the right time, but also they were a team on the rise, as they showed by how they performed the following year. I don't like the term "championship caliber team" because I don't really know what it means. The Giants teams that won the World Series won 92, 94 and 88 games. The O's teams that lost in the playoffs won 93 and 96. Why were the Giants "championship caliber?" Basically, because they had pitchers who got hot at the right time. The O's don't have a Madison Bumgardner, but neither did the 2015 Royals.

Right now, do I see this team as likely to win the 2016 championship? No. But do I think it is the most far-fetched thing in the world? Again no. It certainly would require the starting pitching to improve, and for the offense to be playing well in the post-season. I'm pretty sure the starting pitching was very mediocre in the first two months of 2014 and suddenly got much better, so it's not like that has never happened before. I prefer to just sit back and see what happens, rather than pre-judging things based on what I think is the most likely scenario. I've been surprised too many times, for better and for worse, to think I know what will happen.

[Can_of_corn]

I am just glad they can win more than 69 games in a year now. Something they couldn't do under Andy Macphail. Championship??? I will take being in contention after the All Star break. If you want to go back to the season being over mid-June so you can try and re-build for 10 years or something looking for they mythical championship team I am not on-board.

When you go all-in during the off-season contention after the all star break shouldn't be good enough.

This is a franchise that is built for the now, and if the now is fading in August it is going to get real dark very soon.

[bpilktree]

Maybe it is just me but i look at it in a more positive way and have to think what Boston fans think. They are 1 game up in the loss column on us which is nothing. They are having great years from guys that are old and about the best years in almost a decade from guys like Pedrioa, and Ortiz. Bogarts is a very good player but is he a .350 hitter, Bradley another good young player but still i am not sold he is a .330 hitter with 30 homers, Is Mookie Betts a 40 homer guy? Travis Shaw is a .260 hitter career in the minors and 10 homer guy yet this season is on pace to hit .300 and 21 homers. Then you have Hanley that can not stay healthy ever who has not missed a game because of injury.

The Orioles on the other hand have had some guys over perform and some guys like Jones, Davis and Alverez who have performed bad or terrible. So the Orioles have a better chance that their lineup will play better but i can not see anyway that the Red Sox can keep up this offensive output the entire season.

If I am a Red Sox fan i am thinking we can't be any better on offense then we have and we are still just 1 game ahead in the loss column would have me worried.

[Aristotelian]

Even if the O's are a true .500 team (which it seems half of the AL is this year), at 7 games over they're on pace for an 84-85 win season. Which puts them right in the hunt come August/September...isn't that what any baseball fan wants from their team? It's hard to win 90 games. It's near impossible to win 100 games (especially this year in the AL). A playoff hunt come late summer will be great.

It's baseball. Everyone take a step back from the ledge. O's are flawed, yes. But they're fun to watch, the owner spent some cash to keep the core around, and they're right in the thick of it. To ask for anything more isn't being realistic.

Can you imagine this board if we were fans of the Padres? Or Angels? Or D-Backs? Franchises with little assets and already playing meaningless baseball? We have it pretty good and let's not forget--this team has the most wins of any AL team over the last few years.

Our current pace puts us at 92 wins.

[LAOSfan]

I am just glad they can win more than 69 games in a year now. Something they couldn't do under Andy Macphail. Championship??? I will take being in contention after the All Star break. If you want to go back to the season being over mid-June so you can try and re-build for 10 years or something looking for they mythical championship team I am not on-board.

You do realize that MacPhail built the core of the team that has the best record in the AL the last four years: Jones, Hardy, Davis, Machado, Tillman, Wieters, Schoop, etc.

[atomic]

When you go all-in during the off-season contention after the all star break shouldn't be good enough.

This is a franchise that is built for the now, and if the now is fading in August it is going to get real dark very soon.

We didn't go all in. We didn't sign David Price and Cepedes. We signed a bargain starter and resigned a couple of our own players. Hardly going all in.

[Can_of_corn]

We didn't go all in. We didn't sign David Price and Cepedes. We signed a bargain starter and resigned a couple of our own players. Hardly going all in.

They went as all in as their payroll would allow.

They forfeited two first round picks and signed some over 30 free agents to at or above market deals.

[weams]

I am just glad they can win more than 69 games in a year now. Something they couldn't do under Andy Macphail. Championship??? I will take being in contention after the All Star break. If you want to go back to the season being over mid-June so you can try and re-build for 10 years or something looking for they mythical championship team I am not on-board.

It's what a lot of folks lived with for a long time. You can't fault them for wanting better now that the team has been away from that continuing process for a few seasons.

[bpilktree]

Maybe it is just me but i look at it in a more positive way and have to think what Boston fans think. They are 1 game up in the loss column on us which is nothing. They are having great years from guys that are old and about the best years in almost a decade from guys like Pedrioa, and Ortiz. Bogarts is a very good player but is he a .350 hitter, Bradley another good young player but still i am not sold he is a .330 hitter with 30 homers, Is Mookie Betts a 40 homer guy? Travis Shaw is a .260 hitter career in the minors and 10 homer guy yet this season is on pace to hit .300 and 21 homers. Then you have Hanley that can not stay healthy ever who has not missed a game because of injury.

The Orioles on the other hand have had some guys over perform and some guys like Jones, Davis and Alverez who have performed bad or terrible. So the Orioles have a better chance that their lineup will play better but i can not see anyway that the Red Sox can keep up this offensive output the entire season.

If I am a Red Sox fan i am thinking we can't be any better on offense then we have and we are still just 1 game ahead in the loss column would have me worried.

Red Sox projected stats for the season ave, obp, ops HR RBI Runs

Mookie Betts .288 .335 .884 43 128 156(most since WW1

Dustin Pedroia .316 .375 .866 21 79 116 Maybe the Best season of his career

Xander Boegrats .347 .397 .906 18 92 128

David Ortiz .339 .420 1.148 46 147 83 Career year in average, OPS and 2nd in homers and RBI at 40 (way to fishy)

Jackie Bradley Jr. .331 .409 1.010 28 86 113 Career Year in everything by a whole lot.

Travis Shaw .295 .359 .869 21 107 98 Career .250 hitter and .750 in upper minor leagues

They keep that up there is nothing we can do but I am not sure they can or if the do something strange is going on. I know some of the young guys were top prospects but when you are on pace to break records for before WW1.

[Frobby]

FWIW, BP currently projects the mean Orioles outcome at 81-81, with a 24.9% chance of making the playoffs and an 8.8% chance of winning the AL East. The Red Sox are given a 66% chance to win the division, the Blue Jays 16.6%.

I do have my eye on the Blue Jays, who are on a bit of a tear right now.

[25 Nuggets]

FWIW, BP currently projects the mean Orioles outcome at 81-81, with a 24.9% chance of making the playoffs and an 8.8% chance of winning the AL East. The Red Sox are given a 66% chance to win the division, the Blue Jays 16.6%.

I do have my eye on the Blue Jays, who are on a bit of a tear right now.

Are we clear of the Yankees and Rays %s yet at least?

[PaulFolk]

Simply being competitive is enough for you? Being the best regular season team and being 5-7 in the postseason with no World Series appearances? The Royals are better than the Orioles over that span, they've been there

twice and won once. The Orioles finished 81-81 last season and are still surviving on the 7-0 start, but are 21-22 since then though I know plenty of people here only consider that a "few" games or a "slump". The Orioles

have been playing like a .500 team for over a year now, but that's just a slump too I guess.

For me personally, I am not satisfied with just being competitive. I want a World Series team or at least a team that can get to the World Series without being swept effortlessly in the ALCS. It at least seems like many

on these boards are satisfied with just being competitive and getting to the playoffs even if we don't win anything and need a team with a horrible bullpen in the first round to even get to the ALCS. The Orioles are

mediocre and have been for over a year. People are right that there's still plenty of season (four months) left for things to change, but this team is not the 2012 team or the 2014 team and I can only speak for myself

when I say that this is the first year that I have even considered a rebuild. We shall see how the season plays out, but I am not optimistic.

In April, the Orioles beat up on the Twins, the Rays and Boston who all started slow along with most of the AL in general. There was a time that the AL had only five teams above .500 and was looking pretty weak, but

that has changed as well. The Orioles were hot out of the gate at the same time most of the rest of the AL was cold out of the gate. They had the Yankees when they were awful, the Jays when they weren't hitting,

the A's when they weren't playing well and the Tigers when they were playing awful baseball. The Orioles barely won their series in Anaheim with some 9th inning/2 out heroics from Wieters, got swept by the Astros,

played well against Cleveland and are now being dominated by Boston. Now that the AL has stopped underachieving, we will see how the Orioles do through the first half of June.

This post essentially reads as "The Orioles have just gotten lucky that the teams they've beaten were playing worse than them." Huh?