Trade deadline possibilities

[LookitsPuck]

Santiago has 8 QS, 3 7inning shut outs. Also some stinkers.

I guess his last 6 have been decent. But he's had quite a few clunkers.

I mean, I guess he's not entirely a rental. So there's that going for him. I just really hate that walk rate.

[aewell]

Santiago has 8 QS, 3 7inning shut outs. Also some stinkers.

1. We may need a lefty in the playoffs even if out of the pen.

2. Look at Hector's longer track record era since 2011.

3. Hector throws a sinker most of the time vs. Shoe's changeup. Hector has increased his ground ball allot since last season. We have a better defense than LAA.

4. It appears DD is already scouting him hard. And he is a 1+ years younger.

5. Each of their so rates have flexed each year but across their careers its avg out to be about the same.

6. Shoe walks less batters and that does concern me about Hector but based on last season Hector gets more DP's. That power sinker maybe.

7. Shoe has never pitched more than 136.0 in a season & is at 97 now Hector did 180 last year.

8. Shoe earns a little more money this year.

[LookitsPuck]

Hector Santiago: 17 homers

Matt Shoemaker: 13 homers

About that groundball rate, though....

[aewell]

Hector Santiago: 17 homers

Matt Shoemaker: 13 homers

About that groundball rate, though....

2016 groundball rates almost even

.77 for Shoe

.79 for Hector

[aewell]

Hector Santiago: 17 homers

Matt Shoemaker: 13 homers

About that groundball rate, though....

are we adding the homer he allowed in AAA when he was demoted. Plus 6 more ip..

[LookitsPuck]

2016 groundball rates almost even

.77 for Shoe

.79 for Hector

Regardless, Hector is allowing a considerable amount of homers and is walking a lot of guys. That's a recipe for failure.

You know who else is a lefty and has a great groundball rate? TJ McFarland. And he's not very good.

This year might be a blip for Hector. It's possibly he has a bounceback year next year. I'm just curious who you'd prefer: Hector or Matt?

My problem with lefties is that teams like Toronto eat.them.up.

And if you look at Hector's splits, 15 out of the 17 allowed is to righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS.

The only club we were really worried about in the past was the Yankees when it came to lefties. But they're not a competitive team this year. So really, we should be focusing on guys that can get hitters out.

If we look at their splits:

Matt Shoemaker

Righties: .298/.344/.475 - .819 OPS, 8 homers

Lefties: .255/.289/.412 - .701 OPS, 5 homers

Hector Santiago

Righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS, 15 homers

Lefties: .225/.317/.303 - .621 OPS, 2 homers

So do we really care if he's a lefty or not anymore?

[aewell]

Regardless, Hector is allowing a considerable amount of homers and is walking a lot of guys. That's a recipe for failure.

You know who else is a lefty and has a great groundball rate? TJ McFarland. And he's not very good.

This year might be a blip for Hector. It's possibly he has a bounceback year next year. I'm just curious who you'd prefer: Hector or Matt?

My problem with lefties is that teams like Toronto eat.them.up.

And if you look at Hector's splits, 15 out of the 17 allowed is to righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS.

The only club we were really worried about in the past was the Yankees when it came to lefties. But they're not a competitive team this year. So really, we should be focusing on guys that can get hitters out.

If we look at their splits:

Matt Shoemaker

Righties: .298/.344/.475 - .819 OPS, 8 homers

Lefties: .255/.289/.412 - .701 OPS, 5 homers

Hector Santiago

Righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS, 15 homers

Lefties: .225/.317/.303 - .621 OPS, 2 homers

So do we really care if he's a lefty or not anymore?

the HR are 17 vs 14 which is not considerable .. thats a windy day in Chicago

[bluedog]

These are starting pitchers with 17+ starts with ERAs in the 4.30 to 4.60 range;

David Price (Bos) !!!

Dan Straily (CIN)

Mike Fiers (Hou)

Michael Wacha (Stl)

Kendall Graveman (Oak)

Matt Shoemaker (LAA)

Matt Moore (TB)

Jake Odorizzi (TB)

Matt Wisler (Atl)

Adam Wainwright (Stl)

Tom Koehler (Mia)

Collin McHugh (Hou)

Carlos Rodon (CHW)

Scott Kazmir (LAD)

Mike Pelfrey (Det)

Hector Santiago (LAA)

I'll take any of these guys except for Price in place of Jiminez and his 7.38 ERA. In fact sign me up for any 2 of them...

Several of them play for really bad teams and should be available.

[weams]

the HR are 17 vs 14 which is not considerable .. thats a windy day in Chicago

We just need to option our lefties to Frederick when we face Detroit and Toronto.

[aewell]

Regardless, Hector is allowing a considerable amount of homers and is walking a lot of guys. That's a recipe for failure.

You know who else is a lefty and has a great groundball rate? TJ McFarland. And he's not very good.

This year might be a blip for Hector. It's possibly he has a bounceback year next year. I'm just curious who you'd prefer: Hector or Matt?

My problem with lefties is that teams like Toronto eat.them.up.

And if you look at Hector's splits, 15 out of the 17 allowed is to righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS.

The only club we were really worried about in the past was the Yankees when it came to lefties. But they're not a competitive team this year. So really, we should be focusing on guys that can get hitters out.

If we look at their splits:

Matt Shoemaker

Righties: .298/.344/.475 - .819 OPS, 8 homers

Lefties: .255/.289/.412 - .701 OPS, 5 homers

Hector Santiago

Righties: .236/.322/.458 - .780 OPS, 15 homers

Lefties: .225/.317/.303 - .621 OPS, 2 homers

So do we really care if he's a lefty or not anymore?

Thats what Buck is for to manage the rotation. He often had Chen avoid those types of teams. And Hector shutout the leading hitting team for 7ip. If you look at the top 10 pitchers in the league the last I look 9 out of 10 had an even go/ao rate. T.J. just is not good period. There is a difference between hard hit grounders and grounders that cant be squared up.

[LookitsPuck]

the HR are 17 vs 14 which is not considerable .. thats a windy day in Chicago

I didn't say considerable more than Shoemaker. I'm saying Santiago is allowing a considerable amount. Especially for a "groundball" pitcher. Basically he walks a lot of guys and puts pitches right in guys wheelhouses.

[LookitsPuck]

Thats what Buck is for to manage the rotation. He often had Chen avoid those types of teams. And Hector shutout the leading hitting team for 7ip. If you look at the top 10 pitchers in the league the last I look 9 out of 10 had an even go/ao rate. T.J. just is not good period. There is a difference between hard hit grounders and grounders that cant be squared up.

If you're trading for a guy and then you have to hide him every time you face a heavy right handed lineup that plays in your division...why bother?

[aewell]

I didn't say considerable more than Shoemaker. I'm saying Santiago is allowing a considerable amount. Especially for a "groundball" pitcher. Basically he walks a lot of guys and puts pitches right in guys wheelhouses.

If you notice their WHIp are basically the same. So one is walking and the other is giving up hits. Shoe's slg % is higher. and almost 40 more hits which could be doubles and triples. Vs a single base.

[aewell]

If you're trading for a guy and then you have to hide him every time you face a heavy right handed lineup that plays in your division...why bother?

Idk dude.. the top 3 era's in the majors happen to be lefties and All I know is DD tried to trade for him. He dominated the Red Sox is all I know and shut out the Rays. as well. So 2 out of 4 that he had a chance to pitch against he did the job. Do we have 1 oriole pitcher who has shutout the Sox and Rays in the same season?

[ISU94]

No one has mentioned him. Seems to be a fixation with Shoe. If you are going to play GM. And we need a lefty why has no one mentioned Hector for the last 2 days.

Literally the only reason we keep talking about Shoemaker is because of your stubbornness, saying how he's bad and keep pointing to his ERA and W/L ratio on the entire season, while talking about how he's not in the ALE and he doesn't face the Red Sox on the norm so he sucks.

There is no "fixation" with Shoe. You just are putting him down for no reason, and everyone else talking about him is talking about him logically, so we continue to go around and around on this wheel where you continue to say the same thing over and over again without reading anything anyone says.