Trade deadline possibilities

[aewell]

Madison Bumgarner pitches in the NL West. He doesn't pitch against the AL East. He sucks. No reason to trade for him.

You see how poor all these arguments you are making are just terrible, right? I know Shoemaker is no ace, but you continuing to go to W/L record, the fact that he isn't in the ALE (News flash, there is only 5 of the 30 teams in the ALE, you aren't going to get a starter from a division foe unless you pay a TON) so that means he sucks is just ridiculous.

10 wins 4 losses 1.94 ERA .96 WHIp .. yeah.. apples vs. apples.. You convinced me .. Lets trade for Shoemaker. Mancini and Bundy for that stud. You think that would get the deal done?

[ISU94]

Clearly? This was a pitcher who was demoted back to the minors this year he was so bad. Please you must have another name in mind. Or is this guy related to you?

What has he done since he came back up?

Marcell Ozuna, an OF for the Marlins got demoted last season to the minors. What is he doing this year? .306/.358 with 17 HR's and 47 RBI's. But, because he got demoted last season, he had no chance of doing anything, right? Because he got demoted at one time due to struggles he had no chance of coming back up to majors and excelling.

He's not related to me at all. I don't even LOVE Shoemaker. I think he's a solid starter which would be an upgrade for us. I'm just so frustrated watching you saying he sucks and pointing to things like the division he is in and his W/L record to make your argument. It's hard not to reply to it.

[ArtVanDelay]

10 wins 4 losses 1.94 ERA .96 WHIp .. yeah.. apples vs. apples.. You convinced me .. Lets trade for Shoemaker. Mancini and Bundy for that stud. You think that would get the deal done?

But those numbers don't count because they weren't against the AL East.

[ISU94]

10 wins 4 losses 1.94 ERA .96 WHIp .. yeah.. apples vs. apples.. You convinced me .. Lets trade for Shoemaker. Mancini and Bundy for that stud. You think that would get the deal done?

Because I said I would give Bundy...lol.

I'm saying if we could move Mancini and a couple other prospects that aren't Jomar Reyes, Mountcastle, Sisco, etc. I would be down to move in on him. He has a 2.67 ERA in his last 70 IP with a good k rate.

Just take out the W/L, who the hell cares about that. There's so much that goes into it, as I have pointed out to you, that there is no reason to include it.

. His FIP shows he's better than a 4.45 ERA. I'm fine looking at ERA, but when he's shown that he has been very good for such a long string of starts (10) like he has, why are you so deadset on his total season? He had a couple bad starts in April causing his ERA to ballon. Why do those few starts matter that much when it's obvious he worked on what was failing him and has fixed it?

[aewell]

What has he done since he came back up?

Marcell Ozuna, an OF for the Marlins got demoted last season to the minors. What is he doing this year? .306/.358 with 17 HR's and 47 RBI's. But, because he got demoted last season, he had no chance of doing anything, right? Because he got demoted at one time due to struggles he had no chance of coming back up to majors and excelling.

He's not related to me at all. I don't even LOVE Shoemaker. I think he's a solid starter which would be an upgrade for us. I'm just so frustrated watching you saying he sucks and pointing to things like the division he is in and his W/L record to make your argument. It's hard not to reply to it.

OK I am sorry for saying he sucks. I just dont think all of his stats are a good fit for the O's I think if we are going to give up the players of the future lets go after a better option. Now will you agree that there are better options on the market?

[aewell]

Because I said I would give Bundy...lol.

I'm saying if we could move Mancini and a couple other prospects that aren't Jomar Reyes, Mountcastle, Sisco, etc. I would be down to move in on him. He has a 2.67 ERA in his last 70 IP with a good k rate.

Just take out the W/L, who the hell cares about that. There's so much that goes into it, as I have pointed out to you, that there is no reason to include it.

. His FIP shows he's better than a 4.45 ERA. I'm fine looking at ERA, but when he's shown that he has been very good for such a long string of starts (10) like he has, why are you so deadset on his total season? He had a couple bad starts in April causing his ERA to ballon. Why do those few starts matter that much when it's obvious he worked on what was failing him and has fixed it?

I could see if it was just this season. But he was not so good in 2015 either. Dramatic changes concern me. Is he going to get popped for PED's soon? To give away prospect that everyone says we have few of. I think we need a better/longer track record.

[ISU94]

OK I am sorry for saying he sucks. I just dont think all of his stats are a good fit for the O's I think if we are going to give up the players of the future lets go after a better option. Now will you agree that there are better options on the market?

Guys like Sonny Gray, Matt Moore, etc. I like more. But they will need to involve Bundy and other impact pieces most likely which I'd rather keep.

If we're talking the next level of starters? I would definitely take Shoemaker. He wouldn't LIKELY cost Bundy or that level of piece and would likely only need to be headlined as Mancini with a couple other solid (but not likely top 5 in our system) prospects. He has a lot of control. I think you are underestimating that. I'd like Rich Hill sure, but he's expiring so after this season he's gone unless we resign him. I'd prefer getting Shoemaker who has 4 years of cheap control and has shown to be a solid starter this season, especially over his last 10 starts.

[ISU94]

I could see if it was just this season. But he was not so good in 2015 either. Dramatic changes concern me. Is he going to get popped for PED's soon? To give away prospect that everyone says we have few of. I think we need a better/longer track record.

Pitchers have down years once in a while. Shoemaker isn't a sure thing, no starter is, but he's controlled, under 30, and has good stuff.

Tillman was putrid last year, now he's having one hell of a season.

Not going to shy away from Shoemaker because of last season.

[aewell]

Guys like Sonny Gray, Matt Moore, etc. I like more. But they will need to involve Bundy and other impact pieces most likely which I'd rather keep.

If we're talking the next level of starters? I would definitely take Shoemaker. He wouldn't LIKELY cost Bundy or that level of piece and would likely only need to be headlined as Mancini with a couple other solid (but not likely top 5 in our system) prospects. He has a lot of control. I think you are underestimating that. I'd like Rich Hill sure, but he's expiring so after this season he's gone unless we resign him. I'd prefer getting Shoemaker who has 4 years of cheap control and has shown to be a solid starter this season, especially over his last 10 starts.

OK.. removing years of control.. Because there are other players that fit that mode. Shoemaker has had 1 good year out of three full years in the league thus far. He is on track to matching his 2015 stats. His WHIp has increased each year. And with all of this debate. He is probably not even on the market as the Angels need SP themselves.

[aewell]

Additionally reviewing his track record he had 4 plus ERA in his minor league career as an undrafted free agent. God Bless him.

[dirty birds]

I don't think we should be too picky about whoever we get before the deadline. More than half the pitchers in the MLB would be a significant upgrade IMO. Shoemaker would work, as would many other pitchers. We don't need anyone incredible. Just someone that can go 6IP with 3-5 runs

[joeyc]

This is exactly it. I do not want to trade away our limited resources for a marginal pitching improvement. Despite what the majority say, I want to stay the course. I have seen enough of DD's go for broke trade deals.

I agree. I am tired of 1 year rentals and giving up our talent to get them.

[weams]

I agree. I am tired of 1 year rentals and giving up our talent to get them.

I am tired of half measures.

[aewell]

I agree. I am tired of 1 year rentals and giving up our talent to get them.

We should be tired of acquiring mediocre talent and trading good cheaper prospects for it. We gave away 2 talented pitchers to the Cubs for players we no longer have.

[Tryptamine]

Additionally reviewing his track record he had 4 plus ERA in his minor league career as an undrafted free agent. God Bless him.

Ok, I've already posted this once but let's do it again for this thread. Shoemaker entered the year coming off a terrible 2015 and started 2016 even worse. After he was sent to triple A he reworked his splitter and drastically increased its usage going from 22.2% to 34.0%. He also had a small uptick in his velocity and improved his first strike % from 60.5 to 67.7 which means he's ahead of more hitters . Those changes have led to a drastic decrease in contact made by hitters. Contact out of the zone fell from 64.8% to 54.5%, in the zone fell from 88.3% to 83.9%. His overall contact rate dropped from 80.3% to 73.2%. Not only are the contact rates down, but they're down despite swing% being up across the board. He's completely baffling hitters.

Since the Demotion:

3.18ERA 2.80FIP 3.43xFIP 9.55K/9 1.41BB/9 and he's actually been a bit unlucky as he's sporting a .333babip right now.

So tell me again how he sucks or he's only getting worse.