Adam Jones on MLB's lack of Kaepernick protest: 'Baseball is a white man's sport'

[crissfan172]

Adam Jones has a knack for pissing off the right people. That's why I love him.

[Spy Fox]

Get a grip. Stop feeling guilty about things you had nothing to do with. Or me.

When it involves people being treated as literally less than human for generations, yeah you should feel guilty.

I think that talking about privilege is extremely important, but I don't think feeling guilty is inherently a purpose of the privilege discussion. I don't see the purpose as realizing your advantage and feeling bad about it, I see the purpose as realizing your advantage and using it to inform how you decide to live your life in a way that can have a positive impact.

And my response to people who deny privilege altogether is that yes, just because you are white doesn't mean you have it easy all the time. But the fact that life is challenging doesn't at all mean you don't have certain advantages over others. Different people have different privileges in all sorts of different situations. Our culture is just still weighed pretty heavily towards giving more of those advantages to white males, and to those with lots of money...who happen to most often be white males.

[badmamajama]

I'm also a long time 9ers fan and have no problem if Kaep wants to stand, sit, turn his back or stand on his head. It's his right. But where I think he's wrong is in his approach. He could have gone to the front office and notified them of his stance. His wearing the pig socks doesn't open a health and productive discussion but antagonizes. It also seems that some statements he's made are either wrong or incomplete. You can't have a productive discussion or draw attention to a problem such as this with wrong and incomplete information. Plus, in a world where these things happen, if Colin Kaepernick (or anyone else for that matter) not standing for the National Anthem is what draws attention to it, what does that say about society? As far as baseball being a "white mans sport", I see that being hockey. When I look at baseball I see White, Black, Latin/Hispanic and Asian players. It's probably the most diverse sport of the 4 major North American sports leagues.

[InsideCoroner]

A few years back, I found an article online regarding far-right-wing/extreme racist commenting on major websites and the author claimed that many of the commenters are actually paid by right wing blogs and Fox News to repeat the same hurtful and hateful rhetoric whenever certain topics were covered.

The point is to derail meaningful conversation by engaging forward-thinking people in pointless diatribes. I've been trying to track down that article for years now and I haven't been able to find it. It's a great way to stop the race-baiters.

MSK

I remember reading such an article on addictinginfo some years back. Is this the one?

http://addictinginfo.org/2013/10/27/paid-commenters-flood-internet/

[VeveJones007]

I do want to say one thing on this topic. It may be more a "thinking out loud moment".

First off, I think Kapernick is a loser because he wouldn't take a payout to the play for my Broncos:) I mean, really dude? You would rather be a back up in SF? Yo aren't even that good.....but I digress.

Seriously, here is my thought and let me know what you think. I think racial profiling and mistreatment of minorities by police is a very serious issue. I have witnessed this numerous times with friends, I assure you it is a very real thing.

However....

By taking a knee (or whatever method of protest) I think the message is muddled because it groups the military, first-responders and fireman in there as well. Doesn't that confuse the main topic at hand? I can understand why people would be upset.

What would I do? I would probably put something on my uniform and absorb the fine. In fact, if enough players did it, they couldn't fine everyone!

I will say this...do some research on Francis Scott Key (he lived in what is now Carroll County I believe). He owned slaves and was no friend of the abolitionists. So that is something to think about and consider too.

Lastly, I have a a bunch of really good police friends (both black and white) and they bust their asses to not be perceived like the bad ones out there. However, more needs to be done.

Thank you for your time.

At some point, you need to do some self-reflection about why you associate the flag with the military, police, first-responders, etc. Is it because of what the flag represents, or is it because that's the association that sports like the NFL have jammed down your throat for the past 25 years since the Gulf War?

Consider the Pledge of Allegiance that you likely recited throughout your early childhood. As you were staring at that flag, did you mention anything about the military, police, first-responders, etc.?

[EarlLee]

I'm black, 34, originally from East Baltimore. Later moved out to Western Balto. county. I don't ever post; mainly lurk for news, game threads, etc. I learned to love the game of baseball from my Dad who grew up in New York (during the 60s/70s) and played baseball all day as an adolescent. People my age, had no point of reference for the Colts so all we had growing up were the Orioles. I went to my first game at Memorial Stadium at three years old. I have been loving baseball and the O's ever since. I now have a son who loves baseball and his favorite player is #10. He plays on a suburban little league team and it is difficult to find others that look like him on the field. In 2016, that's just what it is. We are big fans of basketball too, but the cultivation of being a baseball fan has started from an early age in my family.

I am proud of Adam Jones for speaking on this and coming from a genuine place. I am also proud of the depth of the discussion here as I saw someone share this article on FB and immediately came here assuming the worst.

Just felt like chiming in.

[Going Underground]

You all do realize that not all black people are poor, right?

Don't say that,it ruins the narrative.I agree with Jones.What about black people attending Oriole games?In a city majority black.

[Ohfan67]

I don't understand why more kids don't play baseball. It's so cool when whole small towns come out on to watch the big baseball game on Friday night. Oh wait. They don't.

Baseball is far less popular than football and doesn't enjoy nearly the same level of community support in terms of dollars, fan support, etc. That is especially true in inner cities, but also true even in most of suburbia (and of course soccer is the game of choice for most little suburban kids now). Doesn't look like that will change. Baseball is now a bit of a niche sport and likely will be more so in the future.

[VeveJones007]

On Wednesday, the Baltimore Orioles and the Chicago White Sox played the first Major League Baseball game in history that took place in a stadium entirely devoid of fans.

The gates of Camden Yards were closed to spectators after riots sparked by the death of Freddie Gray rocked the city earlier in the week.

Following the game, Orioles manager Buck Showalter was asked by a member of the media what advice he would give to Baltimore’s black youth.

“I’ve never been black, OK?” he replied. “I’ve never faced the challenges that they face.”

Showalter went on to say that he doesn’t approve of people weighing in on issues they don’t understand.

“It’s a pet-peeve of mine when somebody says… ‘Why don’t they do this? Why doesn’t somebody do that?’ You have never been black, OK? So just slow down a little bit. I try not to get involved in something that I don’t know about.”

Part of the problem is that so many of us are too quick to judge, too quick to have a hot take. We need to do a better job of listening as a society. None of us has the exact same perspective as someone else and we may learn something. We win by talking about these things, finding common ground, and coming together, rather than entrenching ourselves and fighting tooth and nail.

[Going Underground]

At some point, you need to do some self-reflection about why you associate the flag with the military, police, first-responders, etc. Is it because of what the flag represents, or is it because that's the association that sports like the NFL have jammed down your throat for the past 25 years since the Gulf War?

Consider the Pledge of Allegiance that you likely recited throughout your early childhood. As you were staring at that flag, did you mention anything about the military, police, first-responders, etc.?

I personally could care less whether Kapernick stands,sits or spits like most do.But he should get his facts right.

[VeveJones007]

I personally could care less whether Kapernick stands,sits or spits like most do.But he should get his facts right.

How does that relate to what you quoted?

[Going Underground]

I think that talking about privilege is extremely important, but I don't think feeling guilty is inherently a purpose of the privilege discussion. I don't see the purpose as realizing your advantage and feeling bad about it, I see the purpose as realizing your advantage and using it to inform how you decide to live your life in a way that can have a positive impact.

And my response to people who deny privilege altogether is that yes, just because you are white doesn't mean you have it easy all the time. But the fact that life is challenging doesn't at all mean you don't have certain advantages over others. Different people have different privileges in all sorts of different situations. Our culture is just still weighed pretty heavily towards giving more of those advantages to white males, and to those with lots of money...who happen to most often be white males.

Privilege. Yeah,white coal miners had privilege. Worked in crap,lived in company owned housing and had to shop in company owned stores with company script.Then when they died they threw them on the porch. That is what I call white privilege.

[SilentJames]

But why is the change always credited towards some external force rather than consequences of internal choices/decisions and cultural changes?

Because it is both. As I said media is influenced by society while, at the same time, it influences society.

Your logic seems to be tracking closely towards "black people don't like baseball because it does not appeal to them," which is a pretty harsh over generalization that pretty much got thrown out of the window in the 1950s.

There are significant social and economic barriers to youth baseball that leave a lot of kids, who are disproportionately minority children, out. To deny that is just sticking your head in the sand.

I could write a book on how white flight in the cities eviscerated the tax base, and the first thins hit hard were parks and rec - so fees go up, knocking more people out. Baseball fields need significantly more upkeep than say basketball courts, and football can easily be played on a street with minimal danger to surrounding houses in tightly packed cities, scarce city resources get re-allocated, leagues struggle to fill teams and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The old adage goes: if you build it, they will come. Baseball also did a right crap job marketing its product in urban environments. Crap sake, the first one a majority black team won the LLWS the first thing that happened was the other teams accused them of crapping around with boundary lines, which anyone who works with youth sports knows happens -literally- everywhere all the time BUT THESE KIDS got called on it.

Hmmmm.

Bottom line, Jones isn't wrong in the slightest. Even saying this it took a certain amount of courage and that should be respected.

The reasons why are myriad and woven deep into the story of American societal changes since the Civil Rights movement. Baseball is once again, as it always is, a reflection of America.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Can_of_corn]

At some point, you need to do some self-reflection about why you associate the flag with the military, police, first-responders, etc. Is it because of what the flag represents, or is it because that's the association that sports like the NFL have jammed down your throat for the past 25 years since the Gulf War?

Consider the Pledge of Allegiance that you likely recited throughout your early childhood. As you were staring at that flag, did you mention anything about the military, police, first-responders, etc.?

I've always associated the flag with the military.

Some folks don't?

[backwardsk]

Part of the problem is that so many of us are too quick to judge, too quick to have a hot take. We need to do a better job of listening as a society. None of us has the exact same perspective as someone else and we may learn something. We win by talking about these things, finding common ground, and coming together, rather than entrenching ourselves and fighting tooth and nail.

I was thinking about Buck's post game comments from last season while reading this thread. I recall him starting off by responding to the "what would you say to a protester" question with "I'd listen."

Love me some Buck. Love me some Jones.