Orioles Officially sign Catcher Welington Castillo

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, millertime said:

I believe that "luck" has played a huge roll in Duquette's offseasons working out and luck runs out eventually.  I agree that the FA class this offseason has been pretty uninspiring but that doesn't mean the team couldn't have been improved via trades.  I say this every year but to me, you have to a plan and stick to it and I don't feel that Duquette has a plan (again...just my opinion).  I believe his "wait and see" approach every year is dangerous because eventually it won't work out.  I also agree with Moose's take on the O's off-season 100%.  It's one thing to not want to spend $20M on a single player but if you are creative, you can absolutely improve the team without having to do that and it doesn't seem like we are creative.  Seems as though the Winter Meetings every year (at least for the O's), is just for the Rule 5 Draft.

Well I'd rather be lucky than good.We all admit that anything can happen in the playoffs right, so getting there  is a good thing.

Since 2012:

Number of years in playoffs/number of games/playoff game wins
Orioles - 3 yrs, 13 games/6 wins
Red Sox - 2 yrs 17 games/11 wins (2013 WS) 
Yankees - 2 yrs, 10 games/3 wins
Blue Jays - 2 yrs, 20 games/10 wins
Tampa - 1 yrs, 5 games/2 wins

So since Duquette has been the GM, within the AL East, the Orioles have the most playoff appearances, are the only team to not finish less than 3rd, and them and the Yankees are the only teams to not have a sub .500 record in any season.

So he might be a mad scientist with the personality of a wet mop, stubborn, and may have missed some opportunities along with making some trades that make you question his sanity (Parra for Davies trade), but at the end of the day, he's found a way to make the Orioles compete year and year out as well as anyone in the AL East, all while only Tampa has spent less.

[Tony-OH]

19 minutes ago, Stevie Janowski said:

It's crazy that you don't even know me and yet you feel strongly enough that you want me to die without seeing a World Series.  Like I get that I can be a bit much, but that's way over the line.

There is definitely some crazy on the board, but not sure how in the world you got that out of anything I've said or anyone else for that matter. Everyone here wants to go to a World Series. Getting into the playoffs 3 yrs out of 5 is a pretty good step in that direction. The Orioles had a good enough team to win it all in 2014, but ran into a red hot Royals team in the ALCS. I'm sorry if you don't understand how hard it is to build a team and keep them competitive year in and year out. Duquette has done better than anyone since Pat Gillick, and Gillick just went out and was able to outspend everyone for a few years in free agency due to the new Camden Yards money.

[El Gordo]

23 minutes ago, Stevie Janowski said:

It's crazy that you don't even know me and yet you feel strongly enough that you want me to die without seeing a World Series.  Like I get that I can be a bit much, but that's way over the line.

He was quoting a Frobby post. Why are you so sure he was referring to you. There are plenty of people who fit that description.

[Rene88]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

There is definitely some crazy on the board, but not sure how in the world you got that out of anything I've said or anyone else for that matter. Everyone here wants to go to a World Series. Getting into the playoffs 3 yrs out of 5 is a pretty good step in that direction. The Orioles had a good enough team to win it all in 2014, but ran into a red hot Royals team in the ALCS. I'm sorry if you don't understand how hard it is to build a team and keep them competitive year in and year out. Duquette has done better than anyone since Pat Gillick, and Gillick just went out and was able to outspend everyone for a few years in free agency due to the new Camden Yards money.

I agree with most of this, BUT I would argue that DD's inability to assemble an above-average starting pitching staff has prevented us from going further. Being not as bad as previous years (14 years of losing...) is irrelevant to the current ball club. We have a great nucleus now (much different team) and with a good starting staff (or even slightly above average) we could win a championship (as you said in 2014 and I was lucky enough to witness from club level as the O's pounded the Tigers).

Signing Ubaldo and Gallardo and trading for Miley, all bad moves (Ubaldo and Gallardo cost this team in picks and hurt team long term). I won't mention the Jake trade, but epic failure there. His track record with the starting pitching staff is nothing short of complete ineptitude.

Not saying as a fan you should hate the team, but you should demand more than mediocrity and reference the 30-3 game every 3 seconds. "It could be worse" ..."remember the 14 years of losing"...

If DD was really concerned about our long-term sustainability as a franchise (as you reference as his strength), he would trade Britton.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, millertime said:

I believe that "luck" has played a huge roll in Duquette's offseasons working out and luck runs out eventually.  I agree that the FA class this offseason has been pretty uninspiring but that doesn't mean the team couldn't have been improved via trades.  I say this every year but to me, you have to a plan and stick to it and I don't feel that Duquette has a plan (again...just my opinion).  I believe his "wait and see" approach every year is dangerous because eventually it won't work out.  I also agree with Moose's take on the O's off-season 100%.  It's one thing to not want to spend $20M on a single player but if you are creative, you can absolutely improve the team without having to do that and it doesn't seem like we are creative.  Seems as though the Winter Meetings every year (at least for the O's), is just for the Rule 5 Draft.

Seems to me that trades can happen at any time, unlike free agents who drop off the board.   Obviously some moves have happened with other teams that have closed some trade avenues, but I can't say that trading early in the offseason is better than trading late.   The Bedard trade was made in February and I'd say MacPhail certainly didn't hurt his return haul by waiting until then.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Stevie Janowski said:

It's crazy that you don't even know me and yet you feel strongly enough that you want me to die without seeing a World Series.  Like I get that I can be a bit much, but that's way over the line.

You can't get on a airplane and go to another city to see the World Series?  If the Orioles make the World Series or not it really effects you very little. 

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, crawjo said:

With Sisco coming up by 2018 I would think we would want to limit any contract we offer this year to 2 years, tops. Bringing back Wieters for three years or more is not something I would be in favor of. 

I think it's going to be hard to leave Sisco's bat in AAA all year.  I know the plan, and the right thing to do, is to develop him at C all year, but if he is hitting the cover off the ball we could find a spot for him.  Depends on how the offseason goes.  

[Camden_yardbird]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think it's going to be hard to leave Sisco's bat in AAA all year.  I know the plan, and the right thing to do, is to develop him at C all year, but if he is hitting the cover off the ball we could find a spot for him.  Depends on how the offseason goes.  

Sisco's bat won't keep him in AAA, his defense will.  I could see him in the OF mix by the end of the year if a short term catcher can't be signed.

[jabba72]

On 12/8/2016 at 9:12 PM, sportsfan8703 said:

Just can't deal with Boras. I mean he's out there trying to sell Pedro Alvarez as a COF.

According to Dan Connely on twitter, Castillo now not seen as unlikely for O's. Castillo must have gotten a decent offer somewhere. 

[crawjo]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think it's going to be hard to leave Sisco's bat in AAA all year.  I know the plan, and the right thing to do, is to develop him at C all year, but if he is hitting the cover off the ball we could find a spot for him.  Depends on how the offseason goes.  

I agree, which is why I think you find a catcher that you'd be okay shifting into a part-time role relatively quickly. To me that's not Wieters. 

[Yardball85]

6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ugh, what a bunch of dunces.  I've intentionally not paid close attention this offseason because....well, the offseason sucks pretty much every year.  Everyone starts theirs shortly after the World Series ends but the Orioles fart around until it's time to show up to Spring Training to do anything worthwhile.  Worthwhile being used loosely.

My prediction is that Wieters goes somewhere, Castillo signs somewhere else right after and we're left out in the cold.  

Meanwhile we're ALL OVER the Rule 5 guys.  What game changers they'll be for us.  The Winter Meetings for the Orioles are literally figuring out what dumb Rule 5 guy we'll have to have all year.  

Just saw that we re-signed Logan Ondrusek.  Awesome.  

Depressing. And spot on correct.

[sportsfan8703]

I just don't see Castillo happening.  We could have traded a bag of balls for him before Arizona non tendered him and then paid him around 5 million in arbitration for 2017.  So we were either not that high on him to begin with or DD totally misjudged the market.

Now DD has made comments about how much platoon COF's are making outrageous demands, but this is the C position and the market is usually thin.  He had to have known that Boras was going to hold and get MW the biggest deal he could get him.  

 

[Moose Milligan]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

But it's a lot easier to just say Duquette is a dunce and destroying interest in baseball in Baltimore. You know, like making the playoffs 60% of the time after 14 years of sub .500 baseball. Like you, I have questioned plenty of his moves and he's not perfect by any sense of the word, but this offseason has been similar to just about every offseason since he got here. Remember when he acquired Trumbo and some people were like, "What are you doing paying that loser $9 million?" 

Honestly, in my estimation Duquette overvalues his own major league players and I'd like to see him be more aggressive in creating a lineup less one dimensional, but if anyone thought this offseason was going to be a game changer I'm not sure why? The team needs OBP, better outfield defense and a catcher, who at the very least will be able to platoon/split time with Joseph. 

Yeah, Tony, I will call him a dunce but I never said he's destroying interest in baseball.  Like you, I'm happy about the winning seasons we've had lately, I'm not happy about what I perceive as a lack of direction for this team.  DD is a master of the February FA signing and the scrap heap signings for guys that can give this team a jolt.  He's a master of shuffling talent from Norfolk and Bowie up to Baltimore and back.  However, you're right this team needs OBP, better outfield defense and a catcher.  I'd also argue that this team sorely needs some speed.

So if this offseason is starting like any other offseason like you've said, then I'm willing to bet that we'll get the same results.  A low OBP team that is a blast to watch when they're hitting 5 or 6 homers a night and incredibly frustrating on the nights where they're swinging out of their shoes at everything and anything and not making contact.  A team with subpar outfield defense.  Catching used to be a relative strength on this team, now we're looking at it becoming a weakness.  No speed.

I will call him a dunce for kicking the tires on a respectable catcher who could have taken Wieters place.  I wasn't about to get extremely excited about Castillo but he's certainly serviceable and comps well to Wieters in some areas.  Now it doesn't look like he's going to sign here, so what's the next step? Castro?  Avila?  Suzuki?  I can't imagine we're the only schmucks around that have a need at catcher, what's stopping us?  If you think Sisco is the guy for next year, why not just say so and address other needs?  Now instead of a wash at catcher from Wieters to Castillo, we're probably looking at a subpar option and platoon.  Maybe Wieters comes back, maybe Castillo signs eventually but as I've said before, time kills deals.   The more time DD spends dicking around doing whatever he's doing, there's more time for other teams to sign guys that we could get.  That doesn't make me happy, what about you?

There's not a lot of depth in the minors.  While I recognize and am grateful what DD has done to keep this team above .500 and playing meaningful baseball every September I fail to see what the long term plan is, aside from patchwork deals to some decent free agents to keep this team treading water.  There's nothing that has made the payroll leaner, the team younger and locking up homegrown talent like Manny or Schoop.  The market for a stud closer is absolutely ridiculous right now and there's no mention anywhere of trading Britton.  We could maybe solve the outfield defense problem and the catching problem just by trading him and find another closer elsewhere.

Again, this offseason is starting off like any other as you've correctly noted.  So you can get all excited when we sign Chris Carter in late February and add another one dimensional defending, 40 homer, .320 OBP guy while we let another one walk.  I'll call that a dumb move because it doesn't make us better, it just keeps us the same.  

[sportsfan8703]

I think the plan is to win as much as possible before Buck and DD's contracts are up.  For us to have success after that would require Mancini, Sisco, Bundy, Givens to all hit their ceilings.  After that there isn't much here other than the draft we just had and Hunter Harvey.  

[Rene88]

1 hour ago, crawjo said:

I agree, which is why I think you find a catcher that you'd be okay shifting into a part-time role relatively quickly. To me that's not Wieters. 

His dramatic splits in LH vs. RH pitching and the fact that Buck and DD have publicly criticized his defense behind the plate tells me he is a trade chip and not in their long term plans.