Sonny Gray?

[sportsfan8703]

13 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I dont think all is lost on him, yet.

But, call me optimistic.

Big season in AA coming up for him.  I think he could be a LH Steve Pearce.  

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Big season in AA coming up for him.  I think he could be a LH Steve Pearce.  

I am looking forward to seeing him in Bowie in person.

[Frobby]

59 minutes ago, ScottieBaseball said:

No argument here, although it's tough not to consider their track record with the picks they do manage to retain until draft day.  

Hard to say if it's been bad under the Duquette administration or not.  

2012 - Gausman

2013 - Harvey

2014 - No 1st/2nd rounder

2015 - Stewart

2016 - Sedlock

Stewart's the one that looks highly questionable.    Harvey arguably was a brilliant pick, but he's hurt.   Lower picks like Mountcastle, Akin and Gonzalez are interesting.

 

 

 

[Tryptamine]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

So are you saying his terrible 2016 doesn't affect his trade value significantly?

It does affect his value, but it doesn't take it from a guy who would have taken a huge haul including multiple elite prospects to a guy where Sedlock can headline the package.

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

It does affect his value, but it doesn't take it from a guy who would have taken a huge haul including multiple elite prospects to a guy where Sedlock can headline the package.

I agree with you.   Who do you think has a higher trade value right now, Gray or Gausman?

Gray: 27 years old, 608 IP, 112 ERA+ career.    Had excellent full seasons in 2014-15 but struggled in 2016 (117 IP, 5.69 ERA).  Three years of team control remaining.

Gausman: 26 years old, 453 IP, 106 ERA+ career.    Had his first full season in the rotation in 2016 and performed well (179.2 IP, 3.61 ERA).    Four years of team control remaining.   

Gray's 2014-15 seasons were better than anything Gausman has done, but he really had a poor year in 2016.     The extra year of team control over Gausman is a pretty big factor, too.    I think their trade value would be pretty close.  

[crawjo]

15 hours ago, murph said:

I am not usually confrontational, I get negative joy from arguing.  But, posts like this (in general, not specifically yours) do bother me.  It's a message board and discussing possibilities for your team is, I would think, one of the more enjoyable aspects.   I'll happily take one of these threads a week, the highlight of my lunch at work is reading this board, so the more "ideas" that are obviously at least somewhat reasonable (and as others have said, Gray is a buy low candidate right now and IMO a possible trade target (which I am against FWIW)) the better!  Just my two cents.   Now please continue this debate so I can back to reading and eating my ice cream.   

It would be better if we had a single, catch-all thread for "random trade speculation not based on any news." Instead what we get is new threads started everytime somebody has the idea that the Orioles should acquire a player, regardless of whether or not there's any news that the club is in any discussions or anything else. I think it clutters up the forum and is a nuisance. 

[POR]

4 hours ago, esmd said:

I would inquire.  Hell, they gave Donaldson away, so why not Gray?  Obviously the chances are, they'll ask for the moon, which we can't afford.

I'm still trying to figure out that Donaldson trade.

It was not a good trade for Oakland.  However saying they gave him away is a big exaggeration.

Brett Lawrie never became the player that he looked like he would be in 2011.  However, he is a everyday player that was under 25 at the time of the trade.  Kendall Graveman was a top pitching prospect that still may turn to  be good.  Franklin Barreto is currently the Athletics best prospect.   That is three valuable assets. 

 

[crawjo]

13 hours ago, millertime said:

Thanks Murph.  I feel the same way but the OH has always had people that complain about valid posts and always will.  It's the biggest reason I rarely post on here anymore.  Too many people on high horses that feel like their opinions is all that matters.

Sorry, I think there should be a higher standard for starting a new thread than that somebody just thought of a player it would be cool for the Orioles to acquire. And it's hard for me to understand your last sentence when I'm not the one starting a new thread about something for which there is no news. 

[thezeroes]

14 minutes ago, crawjo said:

Sorry, I think there should be a higher standard for starting a new thread than that somebody just thought of a player it would be cool for the Orioles to acquire. And it's hard for me to understand your last sentence when I'm not the one starting a new thread about something for which there is no news. 

I do believe that the impetus for the thread was from this article in MLBTR.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/sonny-gray-trade-rumors-astros-athletics.html

 

As such, you do seem to have went a little overboard on you criticism of the OP.  No need to Apologize (would be nice gesture) as his piece was not referenced to the article but the article is there to read and ponder a BIG WHAT IF.

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I agree with you.   Who do you think has a higher trade value right now, Gray or Gausman?

Gray: 27 years old, 608 IP, 112 ERA+ career.    Had excellent full seasons in 2014-15 but struggled in 2016 (117 IP, 5.69 ERA).  Three years of team control remaining.

Gausman: 26 years old, 453 IP, 106 ERA+ career.    Had his first full season in the rotation in 2016 and performed well (179.2 IP, 3.61 ERA).    Four years of team control remaining.   

Gray's 2014-15 seasons were better than anything Gausman has done, but he really had a poor year in 2016.     The extra year of team control over Gausman is a pretty big factor, too.    I think their trade value would be pretty close.  

At this very moment they're probably fairly close. Gausman a tad younger, a year more control, but Gray has proven he can take it to the next step of top of the rotation pitcher, while Gausman has not. I will say that if Gray goes out and shows he's healthy and pitches well in his first 5 or so starts it's going to be Gray by a healthy amount again.

[weams]

35 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

At this very moment they're probably fairly close. Gausman a tad younger, a year more control, but Gray has proven he can take it to the next step of top of the rotation pitcher, while Gausman has not. I will say that if Gray goes out and shows he's healthy and pitches well in his first 5 or so starts it's going to be Gray by a healthy amount again.

4.67

1.496

In that park, is not a indicator of good health or continued viability. To me. 

[weams]

I guess his K per 9 was still reasonable.

 

 

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=grayso01&year=2016&t=p#hmvis_extra::none

 

[Larry18]

An undersized rightly with a history of arm problems. I'd pass.

[Number5]

Gausman coming off a far superior year despite pitching in a park that is much less pitcher-friendly, has one more year of control, and is a year younger.  Not a particularly difficult decision.  Gausman easily.

[CheeryO]

20 hours ago, crawjo said:

But there's no reason for the A's to sell low on him. Why would they do it? It makes no sense. He's under team control for three years. You aren't going to get a 27-year-old pitcher with his pedigree on a buy-low proposition for a team that won 69 games last year. They would only trade him if they were getting back quality prospects, which, again, the Orioles don't have. 

If internally the A's indeed are worried that Gray cannot rebound, then one of Sisco/Sedlock plus others would be enough for him, maybe more than enough.  If the A's are pretty confident/hopeful 2016 was an aberration, then there's no reason trade him unless teams are valuing him like it's 2015.  But the only reason Gray's name would come up at all this offseason is because of speculation the A's might sell low.  I'd wager no team is giving up their best prospects for Gray until he shows his old form.  Any GM that gives up top prospects for Gray at this point in time is risking his job.