Still Need OF Help - Pagan?

[weams]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they went into the offseason wanting to sign Trumbo and find a replacement for Wieters.

Yes. 

[weams]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Pagan walked 42 times in 543 PAs.  The Orioles, per 543 PAs, walked 42 times.

Batting with runners in scoring position isn't a skill, but even if it was I don't know how Pagan's .719 OPS with RISP would help.

Last year Pagan stole 15 bases and was a +4 base runner, so I suppose that's something.

Last year Pagan had zero sac hits, and three sac flies.  The average Oriole in 2016 had three sac flies per 543 PAs.

Pagan's .334 OBP was better than the O's mark, but it was in the NL and he turns 36 in July.

Pagan was a slightly above average LFer last year, but hasn't played RF in six years and has been well below average in center since 2012.

Even on a 1/5 type deal to be a platoon LFer I think he's an incremental upgrade at best.

I'm not interested. I am really not. 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Yes. 

I agree, I just don't understand why they lie about it.

[weams]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

I agree, I just don't understand why they lie about it.

It seems to be a societal trend. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, crawjo said:

I think the problem now is that they can't really guarantee Pagan playing time or that he will be a regular starter. This was the problem with signing Trumbo, it meant that Kim would have to play in the outfield. Add in Smith, and why would Pagan sign with Baltimore? He'd be a fourth outfielder. 

When you're almost 36 and you've been worth a little over one win in the last four years combined you need to come to grips with the fact that you aren't a regular on a team with any decent options.

[weams]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When you're almost 36 and you've been worth a little over one win in the last four years combined you need to come to grips with the fact that you aren't a regular on a team with any decent options.

Or worth much money. 

[El Gordo]

1 hour ago, Yardball85 said:

Not the O's. Barely, BARELY avoided a losing season in 2015. 81-81 does not equal a winning season.

5 straight non losing seasons after 14 straight losing ones.

[crawjo]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When you're almost 36 and you've been worth a little over one win in the last four years combined you need to come to grips with the fact that you aren't a regular on a team with any decent options.

Okay, sure, but if Pagan is not going to be a regular why would you pay him the salary he would demand rather than just use the Rule V players who are much cheaper? And I suspect Pagan is not going to be interested in a fourth or fifth outfielder gig. Someone will offer him something better. Also, Pagan's WAR took a big hit in 2015. Last year he was solid. 100 OPS+ with some steals. He'll get a better offer than what we have available. 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, crawjo said:

Okay, sure, but if Pagan is not going to be a regular why would you pay him the salary he would demand rather than just use the Rule V players who are much cheaper? And I suspect Pagan is not going to be interested in a fourth or fifth outfielder gig. Someone will offer him something better. Also, Pagan's WAR took a big hit in 2015. Last year he was solid. 100 OPS+ with some steals. He'll get a better offer than what we have available. 

I think so, too.   

[wildcard]

Glad to see posters opposing signing Pagan.   I want the O's to add a younger outfielder that they trade Mancini and others to get.

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, crawjo said:

Okay, sure, but if Pagan is not going to be a regular why would you pay him the salary he would demand rather than just use the Rule V players who are much cheaper? And I suspect Pagan is not going to be interested in a fourth or fifth outfielder gig. Someone will offer him something better. Also, Pagan's WAR took a big hit in 2015. Last year he was solid. 100 OPS+ with some steals. He'll get a better offer than what we have available. 

He's a one win player in his mid 30s. If someone else wants to give him more than 1/5 or maybe 1/8 good on 'em. I wouldn't.

[weams]

12 hours ago, El Gordo said:

after 14 straight losing ones.

As opposed to "non-winning" ones. 

[esmd]

17 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

How much do you think he commands this late? One guy suggested 2/10 3/15 plus incentives. 

 

At this point, if he was going to get a multi-year offer at 36, I think he would've signed already.  Wherever he ends up, it'll be on a 1 year deal, IMO.  Or maybe a 1 year deal with a team option/buyout.

[thezeroes]

42 minutes ago, esmd said:

At this point, if he was going to get a multi-year offer at 36, I think he would've signed already.  Wherever he ends up, it'll be on a 1 year deal, IMO.  Or maybe a 1 year deal with a team option/buyout.

Or a Minor League deal with an opt out on April 01.

To sign a "Fringe" player at this point in the "Off-Season" to a MLB Deal makes for other roster moves.  With the Orioles having 2 Rule 5 picks makes adding MLB Contracts counter productive to drafting those Rule 5 players when the ballclub has no idea as to how far removed from the MLB Roster they actually are at this stage of the winter.  I would like to see them (Rule 5) garner some at bats in ST before I made a decision on keeping them or letting them return to their parent clubs.

[Number5]

1 hour ago, thezeroes said:

Or a Minor League deal with an opt out on April 01.

To sign a "Fringe" player at this point in the "Off-Season" to a MLB Deal makes for other roster moves.  With the Orioles having 2 Rule 5 picks makes adding MLB Contracts counter productive to drafting those Rule 5 players when the ballclub has no idea as to how far removed from the MLB Roster they actually are at this stage of the winter.  I would like to see them (Rule 5) garner some at bats in ST before I made a decision on keeping them or letting them return to their parent clubs.

I'm pretty sure the Orioles will give Tavarez plenty of game action in spring training, whether they now think they are going to take him north or not.  Santander will almost surely be starting the season on the DL for the Orioles.  I think the fact that the Orioles have managed to keep most of their Rule 5 acquisitions has somehow convinced a lot of people that they are hell-bent to do so.  I don't agree.  If the opportunity presents itself to make a move that clearly helps the team, I don't believe that the presence of Tavarez will prevent DD from doing so.  Rule 5 is a little-to-no cost opportunity to acquire an asset for the team.  If it doesn't make sense to keep the player, they won't, IMO.  Right now, it seems clear that Tavarez is swimming upstream as it is, and I'd say the chances are less than 50-50 he makes the 25-man roster, looking at the current roster.  Injuries can certainly happen in spring training that could change the plans for opening day, so the Orioles aren't about to return either of their Rule 5 draftees now, before spring training.  I don't doubt that they will likely also have talks with the players' previous teams to discuss the possibility of a trade, in hopes that they clear waivers should the Orioles decide not to keep them on the 25-man roster.