Is the long term strategy to build around Schoop and Manny?

[joelala]

We can sure as hell hope and pray that this is the plan, but I'm pretty pessimistic about us being able to do this.  Manny will command a 300 million dollar contract, and Schoop, based on his age and production would be a fool to take anything less than what we gave good 'ol Chris Davis.  That's loads of money that I personally don't see Angelos spending.  Not to mention, it will make it very, very hard to spend in the FA market to fill holes as they arise with this model. 

The most realistic thing I see happening is Manny walks next year after we are again buyers at the deadline, selling off more of our prospects (this time higher-end ones).  This of course leaves our organization completely throttled, we get a pick back for Manny, and we give Schoop close to 200m to lock him up long term.

I'm admittedly being pessimistic, but I just have no faith in us making sound, realistic decisions about our future.

 

[Flash- bd]

Still can't believe we signed Trumbo to that deal. DD has made some terrible moves, but that has got to rank up there as one of the most obviously idiotic ones of the bunch. Signing a DH whose career year was a .850 OPS to a 3 year deal is really kinda embarrassing. 

[Ripken]

There is no long term plan.

[TradeAngelos]

Like duh? 

Unfortunately I have a feeling that while the OBVIOUS way to go, neither will be here after their team control is over with. Angelos probably had to be drugged to allow Davis to get that contract, and to think there will be not only one but two more of those deals.....it just isn't going to happen. 

[Lucky_13]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

Like duh? 

Unfortunately I have a feeling that while the OBVIOUS way to go, neither will be here after their team control is over with. Angelos probably had to be drugged to allow Davis to get that contract, and to think there will be not only one but two more of those deals.....it just isn't going to happen. 

I don't know. I think he signed Davis because he knew Davis would put people in the seats. Likewise, Machado and Schoop are two guys that people will come to see. Angelos has been known to spend money on his own players. Will he give Manny 250 million +? Who knows but I'm not dismissing it completely, the way others are

[El Gordo]

34 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

Still can't believe we signed Trumbo to that deal. DD has made some terrible moves, but that has got to rank up there as one of the most obviously idiotic ones of the bunch. Signing a DH whose career year was a .850 OPS to a 3 year deal is really kinda embarrassing. 

PA digs the long ball too.

[TradeAngelos]

1 minute ago, Lucky_13 said:

I don't know. I think he signed Davis because he knew Davis would put people in the seats. Likewise, Machado and Schoop are two guys that people will come to see. Angelos has been known to spend money on his own players. Will he give Manny 250 million +? Who knows but I'm not dismissing it completely, the way others are

I love how that since Angelos signs one huge deal in last 15 years, that all of the sudden he "has been known to spend money on his own players". You have Davis, Jones 5 years ago (which was a solid deal but nothing earth shattering)..and a bunch of nothing deals. Yes, 40m and under is a pretty much nothing deal in MLB these days.  And even those deals have been few and far between.

If I am a jerk to someone for 20 years straight, and I do something nice for them one or two times afterwards, am I all of the sudden not a jerk anymore? The fans fall for this stuff all the time and he knows it.  

The Davis deal was worth more than the COMBINED contracts of significance from Jones in 2012 on. A 5 year span. So stop acting like all of the sudden Pete is just writing huge checks. He did it once in the last 20 years. Twice if we are adding Jones deal in there. But we are so quick with recency bias to forget the past. He is 85 years old. He isn't changing. He will never change. And this organization will continue to be worse off for it.

But always remember, it is all Dan Duquette's fault. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

I love how that since Angelos signs one huge deal in last 15 years, that all of the sudden he "has been known to spend money on his own players". You have Davis, Jones 5 years ago (which was a solid deal but nothing earth shattering)..and a bunch of nothing deals. Yes, 40m and under is a pretty much nothing deal in MLB these days.  And even those deals have been few and far between.

If I am a jerk to someone for 20 years straight, and I do something nice for them one or two times afterwards, am I all of the sudden not a jerk anymore? The fans fall for this stuff all the time and he knows it.  

The Davis deal was worth more than the COMBINED contracts of significance from Jones in 2012 on. A 5 year span. So stop acting like all of the sudden Pete is just writing huge checks. He did it once in the last 20 years. Twice if we are adding Jones deal in there. But we are so quick with recency bias to forget the past. He is 85 years old. He isn't changing. He will never change. And this organization will continue to be worse off for it.

But always remember, it is all Dan Duquette's fault. 

 

Mora

Markakis.

Roberts.

Hardy

O'Day

Hardy

O'Day

[El Gordo]

1 minute ago, TradeAngelos said:

I love how that since Angelos signs one huge deal in last 15 years, that all of the sudden he "has been known to spend money on his own players". You have Davis, Jones 5 years ago (which was a solid deal but nothing earth shattering)..and a bunch of nothing deals. Yes, 40m and under is a pretty much nothing deal in MLB these days.  And even those deals have been few and far between.

If I am a jerk to someone for 20 years straight, and I do something nice for them one or two times afterwards, am I all of the sudden not a jerk anymore? The fans fall for this stuff all the time and he knows it.  

The Davis deal was worth more than the COMBINED contracts of significance from Jones in 2012 on. A 5 year span. So stop acting like all of the sudden Pete is just writing huge checks. He did it once in the last 20 years. Twice if we are adding Jones deal in there. But we are so quick with recency bias to forget the past. He is 85 years old. He isn't changing. He will never change. And this organization will continue to be worse off for it.

But always remember, it is all Dan Duquette's fault. 

 

PA spent back in the day 1996-2000, and he spent on Tejada, Palmeiro, etc.

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Lucky_13 said:

With Duquette deciding to buy at the deadline yesterday, it got me thinking about what the long term plan is for the Orioles (if they even have one)...

If we sign Manny in the off-season, I think you're proven correct.  For 2019, Trumbo will be in the last year of his contract.  It's not inconcievable that we're able to unload him for that for that last year.  Despite some comments here, it's not a horrible contract if he has a bounceback 2018.

We definitely need to add a free agent starting pitcher / make that two.  

Okay, the plan might be a little light when it comes to solving the rotation!

[Lucky_13]

He signed, Roberts, Markakis, JJ Hardy (twice), Davis, and Trumbo

2 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

I love how that since Angelos signs one huge deal in last 15 years, that all of the sudden he "has been known to spend money on his own players". You have Davis, Jones 5 years ago (which was a solid deal but nothing earth shattering)..and a bunch of nothing deals. Yes, 40m and under is a pretty much nothing deal in MLB these days.  And even those deals have been few and far between.

If I am a jerk to someone for 20 years straight, and I do something nice for them one or two times afterwards, am I all of the sudden not a jerk anymore? The fans fall for this stuff all the time and he knows it.  

The Davis deal was worth more than the COMBINED contracts of significance from Jones in 2012 on. A 5 year span. So stop acting like all of the sudden Pete is just writing huge checks. He did it once in the last 20 years. Twice if we are adding Jones deal in there. But we are so quick with recency bias to forget the past. He is 85 years old. He isn't changing. He will never change. And this organization will continue to be worse off for it.

But always remember, it is all Dan Duquette's fault. 

 

They signed Roberts, Markakis, JJ Hardy (twice), O'day, Davis, Trumbo. There is a precedent for Angelos shelling out money in extensions. Does it absolve Angelos of all his sins? Not at all and I didn't say that. 

Also I don't know why you brought up Duquette, I never said it was all his fault and I don't think it is. Personally, I think Duquette has done the best job possible while being forced to work under Angelos's absurd parameters. He's made bad moves but he's put a winner on the field. Something his holiness Andy Macphail couldn't do.

[Aristotelian]

There is no plan past 2018. DD is paid through 2018 and that is what he is focused on. If he was focused beyond 2018, Manny would be on the Dodgers right now. 

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

There is no plan past 2018. DD is paid through 2018 and that is what he is focused on. If he was focused beyond 2018, Manny would be on the Dodgers right now. 

I don't understand these arguments. I can see how it's convenient to line up with where we are right now, but legacy does come into play for most guys and gets discussed often. 

 

I dont think it's fair to say Buck and DD don't care what happens after their contracts. In fact both of them have had their teams be quite successful after they've left. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Grt 2BA FL Gator said:

I don't understand these arguments. I can see how it's convenient to line up with where we are right now, but legacy does come into play for most guys and gets discussed often. 

 

I dont think it's fair to say Buck and DD don't care what happens after their contracts. In fact both of them have had their teams be quite successful after they've left. 

Has Buck ever not been fired/quit?

I don't think he has ever stayed the length of his contract before.

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Has Buck ever not been fired/quit?

I don't think he has ever stayed the length of his contract before.

My point was more to the effect of them making decisions without paying any mind to how it will effect the team when they leave. I hear rumblings like that a lot. I get them being geared to wanting to win more now, but I don't believe they are throwing everything to the wind beyond 2018, unless PA is pushing all the buttons before he dies