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Legend_Of_Joey

By Legend_Of_Joey
in Orioles Talk

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I view Sisco and Santander different than Hays. All teams add a 3rd catcher. It isn't like Caleb and Wellington have had poor seasons.  Santander is more of a project. On some levels they took adavantage of his injuries to buy time with him.  The kid has hardly played in AA. 

Hays is a different story. To call him up right before Bowie was headed to the playoffs to me was about trying to give the Orioles a push for the playoffs. Sure it helps him get acclimated like Jeter in 95.  That said when Joey Rickard takes a start from him and a pinch hitting opportunity that doesn't add up.  And yes it is true the Orioles have not faced a LH starter. It is also true the lineup is struggling.  

actual Jeter story...he was not called up as a roster expansion or to get "acclimated", he was called up on May 29th 1995 to temporarily fill in for an injured Tony Fernandez for 15 games, then was sent back down when Buck's veteran ss returned.  Big surprise.  Then Buck was canned and Joe Torre installed Jeter. Buck has always favored veterans over rookies..old school technique of "sit on the bench and learn something, sonny."

 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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2 minutes ago, Malike said:

This is true, but you have to add that Fernandez was done in 96 for the whole season and Jeter got the spot. It wasn't because he supplanted a healthy Fernandez which is what you are sort of implying.

Either way, Buck had nothing to do with it.  There was no acclimating by bringing him up to watch those veterans as he is supposedly doing with Hays. 

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

actual Jeter story...he was not called up as a roster expansion or to get "acclimated", he was called up on May 29th 1995 to temporarily fill in for an injured Tony Fernandez for 15 games, then was sent back down when Buck's veteran ss returned.  Big surprise.  Then Buck was canned and Joe Torre installed Jeter. Buck has always favored veterans over rookies..old school technique of "sit on the bench and learn something, sonny."

 

Yeah he really proved that with Manny and Schoop.

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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Just now, tntoriole said:

Either way, Buck had nothing to do with it.  There was no acclimating by bringing him up to watch those veterans as he is supposedly doing with Hays. 

Again, he was very clear with what the plan for Hays is. Like it or not, he's not hiding anything from anyone in the way he's using him. I'm sure he and the players that have been on the team all year haven't waved the white flag and I suspect they won't until they are eliminated which should be after this weekend. Maybe then, we'll see the kids.

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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1 minute ago, Malike said:

Yeah he really proved that with Manny and Schoop.

Yeah, like Wilson Betemit at third was really a Buck favorite.  Besides, bringing guys up before the rosters expand usually means there is a need for them because a spot on the 25 man has to be made. 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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4 minutes ago, Malike said:

Again, he was very clear with what the plan for Hays is. Like it or not, he's not hiding anything from anyone in the way he's using him. I'm sure he and the players that have been on the team all year haven't waved the white flag and I suspect they won't until they are eliminated which should be after this weekend. Maybe then, we'll see the kids.

Yes, I am sure that was Dan's plan too. 

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Yeah, like Wilson Betemit at third was really a Buck favorite.  Besides, bringing guys up before the rosters expand usually means there is a need for them because a spot on the 25 man has to be made. 

Right. There was a need for Jeter in 96 because the Yankees had no SS. If they had a SS healthy and producing, who knows who Torre goes with. He was pretty notorious for liking vets.

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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1 minute ago, Malike said:

Right. There was a need for Jeter in 96 because the Yankees had no SS. If they had a SS healthy and producing, who knows who Torre goes with. He was pretty notorious for liking vets.

And Buck has his nuggets.  And while I get the idea of letting the 25 man team that has battled all the season continue to battle,  it is still hard to see how that applies to Joey Rickard who was in the minors this season too...somehow is the entire esprit de corps of the season going south because Hays plays instead of Joey Rickard?   Plus, there is also the distinct possibility that they might actually win some daggone games remaining if they actually played somebody who could hit, but, hey, what is that compared to loyalty and esprit de corp of the team?   (and maybe subtly sticking it to Dan...again)  

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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5 hours ago, tntoriole said:

actual Jeter story...he was not called up as a roster expansion or to get "acclimated", he was called up on May 29th 1995 to temporarily fill in for an injured Tony Fernandez for 15 games, then was sent back down when Buck's veteran ss returned.  Big surprise.  Then Buck was canned and Joe Torre installed Jeter. Buck has always favored veterans over rookies..old school technique of "sit on the bench and learn something, sonny."

 

He played in 2 games in September.  I also remember Buck saying he traveled with the team in the playoffs.

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

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I don't see any of them playing until the last week. Once we are mathematically eliminated. Maybe that's the last 5 or 7 games of the year. At that point you'll see Hays play everyday. Sisco catch a couple games.  Idk about Santander. I think we're in strictly stash mode with him. Even though he did rake in his rehab assignment. 

It looks like we're keeping things together and making another run at it this year. I doubt Buck wants things to fall apart. We're probably trying to do as much as possible to finish with at least 81 wins. As arbitrary as that is, I don't think Buck wants us to have a losing season. 

Next ST you will see plenty of our young OF talent on display. 

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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43 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don't see any of them playing until the last week. Once we are mathematically eliminated. Maybe that's the last 5 or 7 games of the year. At that point you'll see Hays play everyday. Sisco catch a couple games.  Idk about Santander. I think we're in strictly stash mode with him. Even though he did rake in his rehab assignment. 

It looks like we're keeping things together and making another run at it this year. I doubt Buck wants things to fall apart. We're probably trying to do as much as possible to finish with at least 81 wins. As arbitrary as that is, I don't think Buck wants us to have a losing season. 

Next ST you will see plenty of our young OF talent on display. 

Okay but why does he play Smith or Rickard? Why not Hays? Someone posted that Smith was hitting at .100. Sorry but I think it's pathetic the way Buck runs the team. Face the fact that this team is not going to the WC. If he won't play Hays then they should have left him in the minors. This organization is run so ridiculously. Sorry for my rant. But as a fan I am pissed. 

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Pat Kelly Major Leaguer

Pat Kelly

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Buck for some reason DOES NOT believe that Hays is better than Smith or Joey right now.  This is frustrating as the "wisdom of crowds" says he is wrong.   This would be a vastly different discussion if Smith and Joey were hitting and impactful players right now,  they are not.   We are pushing for Hays to play because we think he could make a difference and the last 5 games have been low scoring with the Os going 1-4 at the worst possible time.  One or two runs scored or saved could have been the difference in wining more of those games.  It does not seem to be a leap to say Hays could have had an impact if given more PT.  

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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21 minutes ago, Pat Kelly said:

Buck for some reason DOES NOT believe that Hays is better than Smith or Joey right now.  This is frustrating as the "wisdom of crowds" says he is wrong.   This would be a vastly different discussion if Smith and Joey were hitting and impactful players right now,  they are not.   We are pushing for Hays to play because we think he could make a difference and the last 5 games have been low scoring with the Os going 1-4 at the worst possible time.  One or two runs scored or saved could have been the difference in wining more of those games.  It does not seem to be a leap to say Hays could have had an impact if given more PT.  

There isn't really a comparison between Smith (.786 OPS) and Rickard (.631).    Smith's in a small slump of about a week, but that's not really a reason to pull a guy who's been pretty productive all year.     Rickard hasn't hit well all year and has been particularly weak the last 2+ months.    Hays was solid against RHP in the minors, but really destroyed lefties.    Thus, the case for Hays to start over Rickard vs. LHP is far stronger than the case for Hays to start over Smith vs. RHP.

PS - "wisdom of the crowd?"    If Buck managed the way the board dictated the team would be in utter disarray.   

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