Orioles Have No Plans of Shopping Machado

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, theobird said:

This. I think the off seasons first order of business is to work out a long term contract with Manny. If they can't get it done, he has to be shopped. I seriously doubt that the Orioles front office will do this, so I expect Manny to play out the season next year on a losing Orioles team and then walk. But I agree that the only smart thing to do is sign him or trade him. If he is traded, then I think the Orioes should go into a full rebuild mode and look into the possibility of trading off Jones, Britton, Brach, etc. Even pay way down on Trumbo's contract and move him too. Try to trade Davis for another really bad contract somewhere. Hope like heck that Castillo moves on.

The only ones in opposition to trading Manny are Dan, Buck and Peter Angelos.   The Orioles will likely make him their usual token offer....200 million which Manny will laugh at...and then they will hem and haw and leak news of possible near trade deals all winter...then none of them will go through...which Dan will then leak through a source blaming ownership...Then Manny will play 2018 and have a career year as we finish out of it again...and then he will sign with the Yankees. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

I refuse to believe that an extra $8-9M was a "bridge too far" on a multi-year deal for Machado, knee injury or not.

I'd certainly believe it.    At that point, we probably weren't looking at a 9-figure extension.   We were probably looking at a deal that would have extended two or three years beyond FA.    

[TonySoprano]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I'd certainly believe it.    At that point, we probably weren't looking at a 9-figure extension.   We were probably looking at a deal that would have extended two or three years beyond FA.    

In your scenario, that's an extra $3-$4M max a year for a rising star that was already hugely popular in the fanbase.  We'll agree to disagree.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

In your scenario, that's an extra $3-$4M max a year for a rising star that was already hugely popular in the fanbase.  We'll agree to disagree.

I'd never underestimate PA's ability to not see the forest through the trees.

[Rojo13]

5 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I am afraid Manny will walk and the O's get nothing in return woth while. I'd love for the sides to come together and have Manny an Oriole for years to come. 

Why do people keep saying we'll get nothing of return? Of course we'll get something in return, we'll get Manny on the team which will be worth about 6 WAR.

There is no reason to trade him unless you get more than 6 WAR in return (ok maybe a little less as we'll get $13 million to use).

I wouldn't trade him at all. We need try to win it all next year. If things are going bad next year, we trade Manny, Britton, Brach,  Jones. We'll definitely be able to re-stock the farm system if we are tanking next year with those guys.

It amazes me that people think we want to trade a guy who based on his age should be having one of the best seasons of his career.

[jtm]

5 hours ago, theobird said:

This. I think the off seasons first order of business is to work out a long term contract with Manny. If they can't get it done, he has to be shopped. I seriously doubt that the Orioles front office will do this, so I expect Manny to play out the season next year on a losing Orioles team and then walk. But I agree that the only smart thing to do is sign him or trade him. If he is traded, then I think the Orioes should go into a full rebuild mode and look into the possibility of trading off Jones, Britton, Brach, etc. Even pay way down on Trumbo's contract and move him too. Try to trade Davis for another really bad contract somewhere. Hope like heck that Castillo moves on.

This is the second order order of business. The first order of business is to decide what they are doing with Buck and Dan who are going into the last years of their contracts. It does no good to have a lame duck GM trying to make decisions on whether to trade or build around a once in a generation player entering his last year before free agency. And I somehow think Buck's long term plans are interrelated to Dan's immediate future. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I'd never underestimate PA's ability to not see the forest through the trees.

This is true.  Refer to lack of investment in international player development as evidence.

[TonySoprano]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I'd never underestimate PA's ability to not see the forest through the trees.

Again, I've never been a fan of Angelos, but if this really were true, it would be on a magnitude far worse than his fumbling of the Mussina deal that Wren brought to him in 1999. ( reference - http://www.angelfire.com/sports/mikemussina/article041800.html )

[Herman]

If the Orioles don't trade Machado and then lose him as a free agent without getting anything in return then that will be it for me. I already think that they're complete idiots for the way that they blew the last 5 years while they had the core on the team on rookie contracts. If they lose Machado without getting anything in return then that amount of incompetence will be as much as I can take.

[Herman]

51 minutes ago, Rojo13 said:

Why do people keep saying we'll get nothing of return? Of course we'll get something in return, we'll get Manny on the team which will be worth about 6 WAR.

There is no reason to trade him unless you get more than 6 WAR in return (ok maybe a little less as we'll get $13 million to use).

I wouldn't trade him at all. We need try to win it all next year. If things are going bad next year, we trade Manny, Britton, Brach,  Jones. We'll definitely be able to re-stock the farm system if we are tanking next year with those guys.

It amazes me that people think we want to trade a guy who based on his age should be having one of the best seasons of his career.

They should have traded all of those guys this season while they were worth more. You are naive if you think that the Orioles will win it all next year. They will be lucky to finish .500

[25 Nuggets]

3 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I thought that was a very stupid narrative by Heyman. The Orioles were $9 million apart is laughable. That's chump change these days. Few weeks ago, Cafardo speculated the Orioles would make a run at Machado this winter and if that fails they would unload him with the Mets, Marlins and Phils likely suitors.

I will choose to believe Cafardo then, for the sake of my sanity.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Which is exactly what they should say publicly right now.

[wildbillhiccup]

10 hours ago, Rojo13 said:

Why do people keep saying we'll get nothing of return? Of course we'll get something in return, we'll get Manny on the team which will be worth about 6 WAR.

There is no reason to trade him unless you get more than 6 WAR in return (ok maybe a little less as we'll get $13 million to use).

I wouldn't trade him at all. We need try to win it all next year. If things are going bad next year, we trade Manny, Britton, Brach,  Jones. We'll definitely be able to re-stock the farm system if we are tanking next year with those guys.

It amazes me that people think we want to trade a guy who based on his age should be having one of the best seasons of his career.

Owning / managing a MLB team involves looking past one season. All the good teams have a plan for stocking and reloading  so they're rarely in a full rebuild mode for years. If the Orioles realize that won't be able to resign Manny (and that needs to happen before the end of the year) then they should trade him whenever they can get the most value for him return. He will command much more this off season then he would as a two month rental in July. 

Again, I'm only advocating trading Manny if they can't resign him. 

 

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Which is exactly what they should say publicly right now.

Why did they have to say anything at all? And if they felt obligated they should have said something more ambiguous like "Manny is an Oriole today and we hope that he'll be one for the rest of his career" and left it at that. There is zero benefit to them emphatically say they aren't trading him. I'm fairly certain Manny (and his agent) are keeping his options open and the Orioles should be doing the same. 

[foxfield]

11 hours ago, Rojo13 said:

Why do people keep saying we'll get nothing of return? Of course we'll get something in return, we'll get Manny on the team which will be worth about 6 WAR.

There is no reason to trade him unless you get more than 6 WAR in return (ok maybe a little less as we'll get $13 million to use).

I wouldn't trade him at all. We need try to win it all next year. If things are going bad next year, we trade Manny, Britton, Brach,  Jones. We'll definitely be able to re-stock the farm system if we are tanking next year with those guys.

It amazes me that people think we want to trade a guy who based on his age should be having one of the best seasons of his career.

I am as optimistic as almost anyone here.  And I would join you in thinking that winning it all is not out of the question next year although there would have to be some additions and some monster seasons from many corners.

That said, IF the Orioles take the 6 or 8 or 10 WAR from Manny next year and then allow him to leave with only a draft pick in his place, the Orioles will have squandered an asset that is a once in a generation asset and doing so without hanging a World Championship banner in OPACY would be mismanagement on a scale that would be an embarrassment to the franchise and would cement Peter Angelos as being a terrible owner.

Peter Angelos saved the Franchise for the city of Baltimore.  He hasn't been a terrible owner because he is stupid or greedy...he has just made errors believing he is smarter than everyone else.  One of the biggest problems is that many times he is in fact smarter.  Anyway, 14 years of losing after firing his manager of the year, losing his home grown ace to the Yankees, these are black marks that he is actually trying to erase, by committing to Adam Jones, JJ Hardy, Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo.  He even agreed to a large deal for Ubaldo.

Peter is not going to let Manny go, in my opinion, because there will be no reconciliation for him as an owner if he loses him.  He doesn't care so much about what the fans think, but I don't think he can stand losing, not games, but him personally, losing.  His legacy rides on the next 12-18 months in my opinion.  Doing nothing may well be what happens here and there are many close to the Orioles who think that is exactly what we will do.

I think the only way Manny leaves is that he simply won't stay in Baltimore and while that is a possibility, I believe Manny will be presented with an offer that is very very nearly impossible to refuse.

Of course that is just my opinion.