Maryland at Illinois

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

Considering we will be bringing most if not all pieces back last year I think it's fine, with an eye to make a deeper run next year. Our best players are three sophomores and two freshmen and we have a two top 50 recruits coming in. 

No one had in the top 25 coming into the season.  We were considered among the next wave of teams 26-50th best in the country.  I think that's where we are still at. 

What I am saying is the Maryland Basketball team should have, year in and year out, a higher goal than simply making the tournament. 

[ChuckS]

56 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What I am saying is the Maryland Basketball team should have, year in and year out, a higher goal than simply making the tournament. 

But what is that based on?  Our history as a program?  The wealth of high school talent in the DC/Baltimore region that we've never recruited to its potential?

I've been watching Maryland Basketball for 25 years and I can count more seasons where we have been bubble tournament teams than solidly in the top 25.  

Other than some of the teams in the late 90's and early 2000's we've never really been a powerhouse.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

But what is that based on?  Our history as a program?  The wealth of high school talent in the DC/Baltimore region that we've never recruited to its potential?

I've been watching Maryland Basketball for 25 years and I can count more seasons where we have been bubble tournament teams than solidly in the top 25.  

Other than some of the teams in the late 90's and early 2000's we've never really been a powerhouse.  

Yes.

That combined with the size of the school, the league, ect, ect.

I feel like Maryland should be a perennial top 25 school that should make not infrequent runs to the sweet 16 and occasionally beyond.

[glenn__davis]

12 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think making the tournament should be an acceptable goal.

Absolutely.  This is a program whose goal each year should be to be a Top 20-24 seed, with some years where it all comes together and they're a bit above that, and some years where they're a bit worse.  We shouldn't be hoping in December that this team pulls it together enough to make the tournament year after year.  

And of course, even if we get there (and I do think we will), there's very little optimism about making any sort of run.  Turgeon has yet to show that he can outcoach any sort of talent deficiency.

[glenn__davis]

11 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Considering we will be bringing most if not all pieces back last year I think it's fine, with an eye to make a deeper run next year. Our best players are three sophomores and two freshmen and we have a two top 50 recruits coming in. 

 

Yeah - and then Jackson and Fernando will probably leave early, Cekovsky is gone, Obi isn't playing much and seems likely to be gone anyway, so we'll be left with Bender as our lone returning frontcourt player.  That will be the excuse next year, with Sticks Smith having to start games as a freshman and us having no frontcourt depth.  The beat goes on.

[Tony-OH]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think making the tournament should be an acceptable goal.

And that is the underlying issue here. There is no reason that just making the tourney should be a goal. A realistic goal for this program every season should be to get to the Sweet 16 and go from there. Turgeon jumped around like a school girl when he got a 6th seed last year. If you get that excited over a 6th seed, then you have very low expectations for your team.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Yeah - and then Jackson and Fernando will probably leave early, Cekovsky is gone, Obi isn't playing much and seems likely to be gone anyway, so we'll be left with Bender as our lone returning frontcourt player.  That will be the excuse next year, with Sticks Smith having to start games as a freshman and us having no frontcourt depth.  The beat goes on.

Yep, there is always an excuse for the Turgeon supporters on why this team continues to be an after thought. With the facilities, talent level in the area, and league, there is no reason this program should not be a power house, or at least a second tier powerhouse. 

[ChuckS]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Yep, there is always an excuse for the Turgeon supporters on why this team continues to be an after thought. With the facilities, talent level in the area, and league, there is no reason this program should not be a power house, or at least a second tier powerhouse. 

I'm not a Turgeon supporter at all.  I just think there is some unwarranted entitlement going on here.  Maryland has never been (consistently) a top ten or top 20 program, so to just expect that because we are a big state school in a power conference is a little unrealistic. 

I would like to have a coach that could take us to the next level as well, but Turgeon hasn't fared any worse than Gary Williams from 2006 to 2011 and the recruiting has certainly been better.  We are getting top 50 recruits on a consistent basis where as we may have had one or two of them (total) during that time frame with Williams. 

[ChuckS]

16 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Yeah - and then Jackson and Fernando will probably leave early, Cekovsky is gone, Obi isn't playing much and seems likely to be gone anyway, so we'll be left with Bender as our lone returning frontcourt player.  That will be the excuse next year, with Sticks Smith having to start games as a freshman and us having no frontcourt depth.  The beat goes on.

I don't think Jackson is going anywhere unless he plays to the level that we end up with a quality season. Fernando is raw and probably needs another year.  That's not something you can assume. Ceko and Obi leaving are non-factors. 

[glenn__davis]

8 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I'm not a Turgeon supporter at all.  I just think there is some unwarranted entitlement going on here.  Maryland has never been (consistently) a top ten or top 20 program, so to just expect that because we are a big state school in a power conference is a little unrealistic. 

I would like to have a coach that could take us to the next level as well, but Turgeon hasn't fared any worse than Gary Williams from 2006 to 2011 and the recruiting has certainly been better.  We are getting top 50 recruits on a consistent basis where as we may have had one or two of them (total) during that time frame with Williams. 

They were a Top 20 program in the 70's and early 80's, and for most of the 90's and early 2000's.  For about a 3-decade stretch there, the only time they weren't a consistent Top 20 level program was during the Bob Wade sanction years.  The AP released an article a few years back that rated every college program based solely on the amount of AP votes they'd received during the time of the poll.  MD was 17th.  This is a program with great facilities, great local talent, and historical success.  It should not be a program that year after year is hoping to make the NCAA tournament.  High expectations for this program are warranted.

8 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I don't think Jackson is going anywhere unless he plays to the level that we end up with a quality season. Fernando is raw and probably needs another year.  That's not something you can assume. Ceko and Obi leaving are non-factors. 

Obviously you can't assume it, but as a coach in this era you do have to anticipate it.  If I put money on it right now, I'd expect both to be gone though.  If Jackson doesn't leave it will be because he played poorly, which is something this team can't afford anyway.

Ceko leaving is certainly not a non-factor.  He provides depth and minutes in the frontcourt.  Obi is not much of a factor this year, but could be more important next year if Fernando and Jackson do indeed leave.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, glenn__davis said:

They were a Top 20 program in the 70's and early 80's, and for most of the 90's and early 2000's.  For about a 3-decade stretch there, the only time they weren't a consistent Top 20 level program was during the Bob Wade sanction years.  The AP released an article a few years back that rated every college program based solely on the amount of AP votes they'd received during the time of the poll.  MD was 17th.  This is a program with great facilities, great local talent, and historical success.  It should not be a program that year after year is hoping to make the NCAA tournament.  High expectations for this program are warranted.

Obviously you can't assume it, but as a coach in this era you do have to anticipate it.  If I put money on it right now, I'd expect both to be gone though.  If Jackson doesn't leave it will be because he played poorly, which is something this team can't afford anyway.

Ceko leaving is certainly not a non-factor.  He provides depth and minutes in the frontcourt.  Obi is not much of a factor this year, but could be more important next year if Fernando and Jackson do indeed leave.

I agree 100% of what you said here, but isn't Obi a 5th year senior? He was always a one and done. Turgeon had to bring him in because of his inability to recruit good big men and keep them.

[glenn__davis]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree 100% of what you said here, but isn't Obi a 5th year senior? He was always a one and done. Turgeon had to bring him in because of his inability to recruit good big men and keep them.

I believe there was a possibility of him receiving either a medical redshirt or some sort of hardship redshirt.  Honestly I don't know all the details, I just recall reading something about that, and it seemed fairly optimistic that he would get it.  But I don't know how likely he is to stick around anyway if he's not playing at all.

[Tony-OH]

33 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I believe there was a possibility of him receiving either a medical redshirt or some sort of hardship redshirt.  Honestly I don't know all the details, I just recall reading something about that, and it seemed fairly optimistic that he would get it.  But I don't know how likely he is to stick around anyway if he's not playing at all.

He has stone hands and besides rebounding a bit, he doesn't seem to have any other game. He's really a filler at best so if he leaves, he should not hurt the team if Turgeon has any big bodies on the way.

[Tony-OH]

I think the Maryland ADs have not very good for some time now. They seem to be happy with there money sports just wallowing in mediocrity. Saying that, I'm not well enough versed in potential basketball coaches that would be better than Turgeon. I just think he's had his chance and his short comings are obvious and will keep this team in the same mediocrity it's been since he's been here.

[Finisher]

Well, we crushed Ohio tonight. For a little perspective, last time Ohio played the Terps, they beat Gary's squad. We were pretty dreadful in Gary's last half decade here.

Bruno Fernando also hurt his ankle. Apparently just a strain, hopefully doesn't linger.