OK, time to grade the offseason moves

[theocean]

20 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I give it a C.  Cobb keeps it from keeping it a D.

Cashner is alright, but to say he's one of the top FA pitchers means to me that it was a weak FA pitching class.  Yes he had a 3.40 ERA last year but his FIP was 4.61 with a 4.6k/9 rate.  He should be better than Miley and Ubaldo but that's not saying much.

Rule 5 picks, whatever.  Rasmus, whatever.  Tillman, whatever.  Everything else, whatever.

I was hoping this offseason would show us a clear decision of blowing it up (trading everyone, hoarding prospects and MLB ready talent) or going all in and seeing if we could make another run.  I was in the blow it up camp but would have been fine with them pushing their chips to the middle of the table.

This offseason doesn't really signal that they've got the horses to make a run and get into the playoffs.  Yeah, we got a little better but not by leaps and bounds.  

What is going all in to you specifically?

[Il BuonO]

3 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Hard to realistically think it would be any better.  Getting both Cobb and Cashner exceeded realistic expectations.  Reported offers for Manny weren't all that great.  Rasmus may well be a very pleasant surprise.  Supplemented the supporting cast pretty well, IMO.

I’ll agree, but extending Machado and Schoop would’ve been better.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, now said:

I wonder what they could have done to "go all in," as opposed to the upgrades they did make. Sign Stanton, Arrieta & Darvish? Trade the farm? Personally I'm pretty happy with their chances now while still giving opportunities to youth.

With the Orioles there is no all in.  It doesn't work that way, not when they already had a $150M payroll on a mid-market team.  Acquiring Stanton violates the laws of physics, it's almost as improbable that Arrieta and the O's matched up, and Darvish... that's as un-Oriole a signing as there is.

What is the biggest offseason in O's history?  1995-95?  Gained Myers, McDowell, Surhoff, Alomar, Wells.  Lost Brown, Jones, Baines, Eichhorn, Moyer, Leo Gomez, McDonald.

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

With the Orioles there is no all in.  It doesn't work that way, not when they already had a $150M payroll on a mid-market team.  Acquiring Stanton violates the laws of physics, it's almost as improbable that Arrieta and the O's matched up, and Darvish... that's as un-Oriole a signing as there is.

What is the biggest offseason in O's history?  1995-95?  Gained Myers, McDowell, Surhoff, Alomar, Wells.  Lost Brown, Jones, Baines, Eichhorn, Moyer, Leo Gomez, McDonald.

Frank Robinson.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, theocean said:

What is going all in to you specifically?

Rick Dempsey, Tippy Martinez, Rudy May, Scott McGregor and Dave Pagan for Doyle Alexander, Jimmy Freehan, Elrod, Ken Holtzman and Grant Jackson

AND 

Gus Triandos, Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Willy Miranda, Hal Smith, Gene Woodling and four PTBNL for Billy Hunter, Don Larsen, Bob Turley and four more PTBNL.

In one offseason.  Plus some free agents and Rule 5ers and signing a new sweeper from Preston North End.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Frank Robinson.

The 1965 Orioles won 94 games.  And RF Curt Blefary was 21 years old coming off a season with a 139 OPS+.  So they traded their best starter for a 30-year-old RFer?  Idiots.

(Ducks)

[Rene88]

Cobb and Cashman make it a B for me. However not trading Manny, Britton and sadly Schoop were a mistake IMO.

We have a chance! That is all you can ask for! 

The Astros, Yankees, Red Sox and Indians will be REALLY good this year so best case...wildcard.

[canonfaz]

B- for me. Happy with Cobb, but I would have preferred to trade Manny.

[Frobby]

I gave it a B, but would really have said its on the cusp of B-/C+.

To begin with, I would have given the offseason an F before we acquired Cobb.    We simply hadn't done enough to address the pitching.   I said all along that if Cashner was our biggest pitching acquisition of the offseason, it would be a waste of money because we weren't going to compete.

Now, I do feel we have a decent shot at the playoffs -- maybe only the 2nd wild card, but I'd gladly take that right now and then hope to go on a run in the playoffs.

Maybe more importantly, at least for right now I feel like we will be pretty competitive on a nightly basis.   Last year there were so many games where we were behind multiple runs in the first few innings.     I feel like this year I'll be watching a lot more games where we have a reasonable chance to win.

I'm still very ambivalent about the decision not to trade Manny and others, and of course I have no idea what was offered.    But, at the same time, I'm looking forward to watching Manny in 2018.

In any event, I'm ready for an interesting season.

[SteveA]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Rick Dempsey, Tippy Martinez, Rudy May, Scott McGregor and Dave Pagan for Doyle Alexander, Jimmy Freehan, Elrod, Ken Holtzman and Grant Jackson

AND 

Gus Triandos, Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Willy Miranda, Hal Smith, Gene Woodling and four PTBNL for Billy Hunter, Don Larsen, Bob Turley and four more PTBNL.

In one offseason.  Plus some free agents and Rule 5ers and signing a new sweeper from Preston North End.

Technically the Dempsey/McGregor/etc deal was not an offseason deal.    It was in June.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

6 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Technically the Dempsey/McGregor/etc deal was not an offseason deal.    It was in June.

 

Doesn't change my definition of all in. 

[MikeAD]

I give it a B because of the all things considered.  If management wasn't going to shop Manny and we weren't going to rebuild, this is about as good as you can do.  I don't agree with the not rebuild but with all things considered its the best team that can be on the field.  

[spiritof66]

I gave the off-season a B. I wonder whether those who graded  it an A were overreacting to things looking a lot better than they did five weeks ago (before the Cashner signing) or two days ago.

I don't know where this team is going in 2018 -- and that's a good thing . But I also have no clue where it's headed after 2018 -- and that's not such a good thing. 

[SteveA]

I gave it a B.

We clearly were not going to trade Manny in the offseason.  You can argue we should have, but I think we all knew that going in.

Given that, and given that we weren't going to sign TWO of the top 4 free agent pitchers, I think a pretty good job was done.   At this point we have a lower payroll than last year and a better team.

But there's no way I can give it an A because it appears we have probably blown our chance of keeping Schoop by not extending him this offseason.   And it doesn't appear we even tried.   Because I think once next offseason starts and free agency is just a season away, it's very unlikely we can extend him.   The only way we could is if the depressed market continues and Manny and Harper have to settle for 6/150 or something like that and Schoop sees the writing on the wall and is willing to extend.

[oriole]

I give it a B. Tillman should be on a minor league deal. If the reported trade offer from the Cubs (Montgomery, Russell, Almora) for Manny was legit then that definitely should have been done. I don't like the Cashner signing.

Heres what I do like...Cobb is a fantastic signing. I'm actually liking the Rasmus signing too. I think the rule 5 picks were an interesting route. I especially like it considering some of the veteran role players were willing to sign minor league deals and that gave a lot of flexibility. Even though one of my knocks was not trading Manny...I'm only human and can feel two ways about one thing. I'm happy we get to watch him play for one more year. 

 

Id have rather seen Cobb, Chatwood, Dickey as FA additions. I think Cashner will be Gallardo 2.0 and Tillman should have been on a minor league deal after last year. Overall I am pleased though.