Is Buck a tough manager to pitch for?

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, POR said:

I was just responding to your post that said "Cashner was successful in Texas because they didn't push him to go deep in games."  I showed that even in the first three innings of the game Cashner was much better in 2017 than 2018.  

Baseball reference does not break down the time Hellickson was in Phily vs Baltimore in its era by innings split for 2017.  However, a manual check shows that Hellickson gave up 23 runs in 30 innings in the first innings of games as an Orioles.  

My point being the numbers don't back up the theory in the post that I was responding to.

As far as the defense goes, are you the guy that thinks Mancini in average in LF and the defensive stats are biased against him?

 

Mancini ranks 6th in RF and  7th in Fielding Pct out on 14  LF qualifier according to ESPN.   How much more average can you get.  This agrees with my eye test.      You can have your advance fielding stats.  For the most part I think they suck.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/lf/sort/rangeFactor

[POR]

Mancini is 220 out of 220 in catch probability.  His outs above average of -9 is now 2 worse than anyone else.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, POR said:

Mancini is 220 out of 220 in catch probability.  His outs above average of -9 is now 2 worse than anyone else.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard

Look at your  stupid chart.   Rickard, Peterson, Santander, Valencia, Rasmus and Trunbo all rank above Adam Jones.    Jones may have lost a step or two but he is still a much better outfielder than any on the those  guys.  Stupid chart.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Mancini ranks 6th in RF and  7th in Fielding Pct out on 14  LF qualifier according to ESPN.   How much more average can you get.  This agrees with my eye test.      You can have your advance fielding stats.  For the most part I think they suck.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/lf/sort/rangeFactor

You don’t mean fielding percentage (which has nothing to do with range), you mean range factor.    But that’s a very crude stat which ignores how many balls actually go to the player’s zone.   I think you’d have to be blind as a bat not to see that Mancini’s range is well below average.   I’m not always a fan of the advanced metrics, but when every single one of them agrees on a player it’s ridiculous to ignore them.    You’re just wishing away the problem IMO.

Fielding  percentage for an outfielder is about whether he can catch what he gets to.  Range is of course about his ability to get to the call.    I cited both.   While Mancini's range is not good.  Its better than other left fielders according to this ESPN chart.   I am not saying that Mancini is rangy. But he is average based on other players that play LF.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Mancini ranks 6th in RF and  7th in Fielding Pct out on 14  LF qualifier according to ESPN.   How much more average can you get.  This agrees with my eye test.      You can have your advance fielding stats.  For the most part I think they suck.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/position/lf/sort/rangeFactor

Oh, come on.   Range factor is a terrible stat because it completely ignores how many balls go into a player’s zone.    You are just wishing the problem away IMO.

RZR: 50th of 52 in LF

RngR: 51st of 52 in LF

UZR/150: 45th of 52 in LF

OAA: 220th of 220 among all OF

Rtot: -11

He’s been bad out there.

 

 

 

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Look at your  stupid chart.   Rickard, Peterson, Santander, Valencia, Rasmus and Trunbo all rank above Adam Jones.    Jones may have lost a step or two but he is still a much better outfielder than any on the those  guys.  Stupid chart.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but you’re wrong.   OAA is a cumulative stat.    As an everyday player, Jones has more chances to be below average than the players you mentioned.    He’s started more games in the OF than all the players you mentioned combined.    

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Fielding  percentage for an outfielder is about whether he can catch what he gets to.  Range is of course about his ability to get to the call.    I cited both.   While Mancini's range is not good.  Its better than other left fielders according to this ESPN chart.   I am not saying that Mancini is rangy. But he is average based on other players that play LF.

You were responding to a post that I was in the middle of deleting and replacing because I had misread your earlier post.    You did cite range factor, but that’s a long discredited stat because it doesn’t take into account how many balls are hit into the player’s zone.   

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You’re entitled to your opinion, but you’re wrong.   OAA is a cumulative stat.    As an everyday player, Jones has more chances to be below average than the players you mentioned.    He’s started more games in the OF than all the players you mentioned combined.    

Now  who is wishing away the problem.  The Chart has other O's 6 other O's outfielder better then Adam in fielding.  Stupid Chart.

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You were responding to a post that I was in the middle of deleting and replacing because I had misread your earlier post.    You did cite range factor, but that’s a long discredited stat because it doesn’t take into account how many balls are hit into the player’s zone.   

RF is old.  But he advanced Metrics have not proved to be any better.  The try to include most factors but the results are not reliable.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Now  who is wishing away the problem.  The Chart has other O's 6 other O's outfielder better then Adam in fielding.  Stupid Chart.

You’re just being stubborn.   It’s a cumulative stat!    Trumbo being at -4 in 7 games does not make him better than Jones at -7 in 53 games.    

[wildcard]

Just now, Frobby said:

You’re just being stubborn.   It’s a cumulative stat!    Trumbo being at -4 in 7 games does not make him better than Jones at -7 in 53 games.    

Cherry picker.   What about Rickard, Santander?

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Cherry picker.   What about Rickard, Santander?

The Santander number surprises me.   Rickard’s a pretty good OF.

I’m not saying the advanced metrics are perfect.    But when they all point in the same direction, I tend to believe them.    Especially when the players in question have demonstrably below average sprint speed, which obviously is an important component of range.   

[Otter]

Regarding Buck and his handling of a pitching staff...there is nothing more annoying for a pitcher than a manager who micromanages pitchers who has never been a pitcher himself.  It reminds me of why Palmer was always annoyed at Earl.  Palmer also gets annoyed when young pitchers pay too much attention to the runners at the expense of the guy at the plate...if you get the guy out at the plate then TTTP doesn't matter...

[wildcard]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Santander number surprises me.   Rickard’s a pretty good OF.

I’m not saying the advanced metrics are perfect.    But when they all point in the same direction, I tend to believe them.    Especially when the players in question have demonstrably below average sprint speed, which obviously is an important component of range.   

Neither Rickard nor Santander are as good an outfielder defensively that Adam Jones is.   Not saying the Jones is as good as he was but he is still better than either one of those two.   Stupid Chart and to say Mancini is 220 when you point out that many of the outfielders don't even have enough playing time to mean anything.  Stupid  Chart.

[Ohfan67]

I believe that the Mancini, Rickard, etc., arguments regarding defense will be moot pretty soon. There are better defenders in the minors that are knocking on the door. I think once the Orioles make some deadline trades we will see multiple promotions and get to see some young guys fly around the outfield. 

 

p.s. Mancini is a pretty good outfielder for a mediocre first baseman.