The Rebuild - Retool Discussion

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

 I think they will have to be a well rounded team. Funny thing is the best season we had in 2014, Davis was bad and Manny hurt half the season. There is more than one way to win. 

They will have a ton of money off the books. I know the Davis deal hurts. Looking at the Indians roster it is amazing the number of players they have with team options. They tied a bunch up early on and added team control. The Orioles should follow this model. 

The Indians have stars though, Lindor and Ramirez are both in the top 5 of position player WAR, and Trevor Bauer is #1 in pitcher WAR.

[eddie83]

Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

Bad and then suspended!

We thought he was bad in 2014 hahahaha.... 

Yeah. 

KC had all that RHP except Vargas.  Who knows but he could have helped that series. 

[eddie83]

Just now, Luke-OH said:

The Indians have stars though, Lindor and Ramirez are both in the top 5 of position player WAR, and Trevor Bauer is #1 in pitcher WAR.

Right. My point is I would still like to see the Orioles start trying to lock some players down early on. Someone like Gausman would be a recent example along with Schoop. 

[billw76]

I'd rather go the rebuild route. I just don't think the current roster has enough pieces to retool even after any trades, and there isn't enough help currently in the minors to make this a competitive team right now.

If the FO really wants to speed up the process they need to think about moving Gausman, Bundy, Schoop, and Givens as well as all the rentals. Bundy or Gausman on the market right now would net us some nice hauls and restock the farm.

 

[eddie83]

I know the game starts on the mound but the key is getting a solid core of position players. 

It seems to me the that teams have better success trying to add pitching along the way than vice versa. The Mets are one example. 

Cubs and Astros have both built their lineups then the pitching was added. Even the Yankees are built that way.  I know we don’t spend like some of those teams but still.  

[esmd]

No change from before.  Trade all the vets that you can now.  Move Schoop in the offseason.  I wouldn't touch the rotation, you never give away pitching, IMO.  That's the only thing that can possibly make the team watchable is if we can get decent starting pitching.  I'd move Schoop in the offseason assuming he has a good 2nd half.  I want to see the following starting lineup in 2019, at least as things sit now.  Some of these guys may be supplanted by players we get in return for the trades we've all discussed:

1.  Mullins - CF

2.  Sisco - C

3. Mancini - 1B

4. Trumbo - DH (unless he can be moved)

5.  Beckham - SS

6.  Mountcastle - 3B

7.  Hays - RF

8. Stewart - LF

9. ???? - 2B

I guess if Mountcastle's arm truly isn't good enough for 3rd, you could move him to 2nd.  Maybe we get a 3rd base prosect in return, or sign a cheap veteran to play 3rd.  Still, as rough and rookie laden as this lineup would be, I doubt they could be much worse than this years' offense, and at least hopefully some of those guys will pan out.  The one's that don't, you've got a lot of high draft picks to make and hopefully some other prospects to try that you get in return for Machado, Britton, Jones, etc.

Oh, and I guess Davis will be on the bench taking up a roster spot, since I can't see them releasing him. 

[eddie83]

29 minutes ago, esmd said:

No change from before.  Trade all the vets that you can now.  Move Schoop in the offseason.  I wouldn't touch the rotation, you never give away pitching, IMO.  That's the only thing that can possibly make the team watchable is if we can get decent starting pitching.  I'd move Schoop in the offseason assuming he has a good 2nd half.  I want to see the following starting lineup in 2019, at least as things sit now.  Some of these guys may be supplanted by players we get in return for the trades we've all discussed:

1.  Mullins - CF

2.  Sisco - C

3. Mancini - 1B

4. Trumbo - DH (unless he can be moved)

5.  Beckham - SS

6.  Mountcastle - 3B

7.  Hays - RF

8. Stewart - LF

9. ???? - 2B

I guess if Mountcastle's arm truly isn't good enough for 3rd, you could move him to 2nd.  Maybe we get a 3rd base prosect in return, or sign a cheap veteran to play 3rd.  Still, as rough and rookie laden as this lineup would be, I doubt they could be much worse than this years' offense, and at least hopefully some of those guys will pan out.  The one's that don't, you've got a lot of high draft picks to make and hopefully some other prospects to try that you get in return for Machado, Britton, Jones, etc.

Oh, and I guess Davis will be on the bench taking up a roster spot, since I can't see them releasing him. 

I have no desire to see Mountcastle this early on. He is only 21 years old. They can take their time with him. 

I think Hays will need to show health and production before coming up. I still believe in him but once again no need to rush him.  

I do not want to waste a year of service time on players you hope will be a huge part of your future unless we are a contending team. Stewart would not bother me as much. He has been at AAA some time and I am curious if he can play up here. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kipnis is actually doing OK, he's been on a hot streak.

.864 OPS over his last 35 games.   And his overall OPS (.661) is about the same as Schoop’s (.660).    I don’t see Cleveland coveting Schoop.

[Ballmer Bruce]

The key to success in MLB will never change.  Get as much quality pitching as you can. When you think you have enough go get more. 

Easier said than done.

[esmd]

42 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I have no desire to see Mountcastle this early on. He is only 21 years old. They can take their time with him. 

I think Hays will need to show health and production before coming up. I still believe in him but once again no need to rush him.  

I do not want to waste a year of service time on players you hope will be a huge part of your future unless we are a contending team. Stewart would not bother me as much. He has been at AAA some time and I am curious if he can play up here. 

Fair enough on Mountcastle.  I think Hays needs to be up here playing just as Sisco, Mullins, and Stewart need to be.  They've accomplished all they can in the minors.  Sink or swim.

[Luke-OH]

46 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I have no desire to see Mountcastle this early on. He is only 21 years old. They can take their time with him. 

I think Hays will need to show health and production before coming up. I still believe in him but once again no need to rush him.  

I do not want to waste a year of service time on players you hope will be a huge part of your future unless we are a contending team. Stewart would not bother me as much. He has been at AAA some time and I am curious if he can play up here. 

Mountcastle's bat is very close to ready, his defense is not, he needs to improve further at 3B or find another position.

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, esmd said:

Fair enough on Mountcastle.  I think Hays needs to be up here playing just as Sisco, Mullins, and Stewart need to be.  They've accomplished all they can in the minors.  Sink or swim.

Hays has been on the DL since May 24 and was struggling terribly at Bowie before that (.633 OPS).   He’s the last guy I’d want to see in Baltimore right now.    Hopefully he’ll start hitting once he’s back at Bowie.

[eddie83]

29 minutes ago, esmd said:

Fair enough on Mountcastle.  I think Hays needs to be up here playing just as Sisco, Mullins, and Stewart need to be.  They've accomplished all they can in the minors.  Sink or swim.

Hays needs to reestablish himself. Hope he is back playing soon. 

I think they need to basically do a better job of finding a place holder unlike this year with Rasmus. I think Hays should be in a position to be called up relatively early but I would not want him being on team on Opening Day.  

[eddie83]

28 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Mountcastle's bat is very close to ready, his defense is not, he needs to improve further at 3B or find another position.

Right. I see no need to rush him. Plus I don’t want to see a year of service time wasted.  

[theocean]

1 hour ago, esmd said:

No change from before.  Trade all the vets that you can now.  Move Schoop in the offseason.  I wouldn't touch the rotation, you never give away pitching, IMO.  That's the only thing that can possibly make the team watchable is if we can get decent starting pitching.  I'd move Schoop in the offseason assuming he has a good 2nd half.  I want to see the following starting lineup in 2019, at least as things sit now.  Some of these guys may be supplanted by players we get in return for the trades we've all discussed:

1.  Mullins - CF

2.  Sisco - C

3. Mancini - 1B

4. Trumbo - DH (unless he can be moved)

5.  Beckham - SS

6.  Mountcastle - 3B

7.  Hays - RF

8. Stewart - LF

9. ???? - 2B

I guess if Mountcastle's arm truly isn't good enough for 3rd, you could move him to 2nd.  Maybe we get a 3rd base prosect in return, or sign a cheap veteran to play 3rd.  Still, as rough and rookie laden as this lineup would be, I doubt they could be much worse than this years' offense, and at least hopefully some of those guys will pan out.  The one's that don't, you've got a lot of high draft picks to make and hopefully some other prospects to try that you get in return for Machado, Britton, Jones, etc.

Oh, and I guess Davis will be on the bench taking up a roster spot, since I can't see them releasing him. 

This rebuild is going to take a while, mainly because I don't think the O's current prospects of Hays, Stewart, Mullins, Sisco, and Mountcastle are that good. I don't think the O's would be in much better shape if they never traded Zach Davies and Josh Hader, either.

For 2019, just based on how this team normally operates, I think we'll see some veterans on the Opening Day lineup. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see an outfield of Jones/Markakis/Mancini/Mullins and an infield of Davis/Schoop/Beckham/Logan-Forsythe-or-some-overpriced-scrub with Trumbo as DH and Sisco/Wynns at catcher.

It seems like whatever the O's get back for Machado will be a little bit away from MLB action - so I think you'll see the O's patch up the roster a bit for next year and see what they can get out of a Bundy/Gausman/Cashner/Cobb rotation.

They'll probably suck again and trade Schoop, Gausman, and Cashner for a decent haul. Then, the full-on rebuild starts in 2020.