Orioles Deal Gausman/O'Day to Braves - Schoop to Brewers

[sportsfan8703]

I like that Cincinnati is taking chances on guys off waivers as a sort of buy low of one year rentals before FA. Galvis was a swanky good pickup too. I know we’re tanking this year, Galvis could’ve been an answer for the open IF spot next year. Galvis SS, Villar 2B, Alberto 3B. 

Props to the reds for trying something.

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

The thing you were right about was that he was a 2 pitch pitcher.  That's why I was surprised that Atlanta didn't try him in the bullpen - especially when they had so little in the pen - before they traded for 3 relievers near the trade deadline.  

They must not have liked his stuff in order to have not tried him in the bullpen.  Or something like that.  I hate the "let's put them in the pen and see what happens!" idea....I understand it, but I hate it.  That said, he should have been a candidate for that.  Maybe they asked him and he refused so they released him.  Who knows.

[Moose Milligan]

Anyway, two scoreless innings out of the pen for Gausman last night, 2 strikeouts, no walks, one hit.  Looks like a good performance from him.  

[Redskins Rick]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why do you hate the "let's put them in the bullpen and see what happens".  Many poor/ mediocre starters have become important bullpen guys.  In Gausman's case, he's already been used for stretches before out of the bullpen with some success.  I'm also surprised the Braves didn't try it but maybe Gausman wasn't receptive to the idea.

Wait, I thought the Orioles were shafted by trading their sure-fire HOF TOR stud for small change?

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Why do you hate the "let's put them in the bullpen and see what happens".  Many poor/ mediocre starters have become important bullpen guys.  In Gausman's case, he's already been used for stretches before out of the bullpen with some success.  I'm also surprised the Braves didn't try it but maybe Gausman wasn't receptive to the idea.

Because their stuff is their stuff.  It works for some, it certainly doesn't work for all.  And if you're going to put someone in the bullpen without bothering to tweak anything or look to make other changes it's a plan that just relies on hope.  Hope that you can mask whatever shortcomings a pitcher has.  I think it can work but I think you gotta be able to pick and choose the pitchers you'd want to gamble on.

If a guy can't locate a fastball or doesn't have a good breaking ball...or whatever's holding them back from being a good starter, I don't see how putting them in the bullpen is a fix.  Maybe...maybe the change of scenery is all they need.  Maybe they feel that they can just air it out and put a few more ticks on their fastball velocity and that's what cures them.  But still, can they locate it?  Because if they can't locate it when they're starting a game in the first inning and if they can't locate it when they come into the game in the 7th, what good is it?  

I mean, you look at a guy like Eckersley who was a good pitcher to begin with, of course he's not going to have a hard time making the transition.  But that guy, let's not forget, had to battle with the bottle, too.  Smoltz was a damn good starter who turned into a great reliever when the Braves needed it.  Britton, of course.  Britton was successful in making the change from an average (at best) starter to a dominant closer because he went from four pitches to two and went ham on getting that sinker to work.  He ditched his curveball, he ditched his slider and just focused on making that pitch elite.  But at least Britton had some raw talent to work with.  

IMO, the pitcher's gotta be good to begin with or he's got to have something about him that's too good to ignore and that needs to be harnessed if you're going to have him make that move to the pen.  You can't just take a guy like Hess, who doesn't do anything particularly well, and say "oh, let's try him in the bullpen" because...well, why?  Why would you?  There are no redeeming qualities there.  There's no plus fastball, there's no outstanding command of any one pitch, there's no wipeout slider or hammer curve that makes you say "Damn, we can work with that."  Gausman does throw hard, he does have some power stuff, that's why moving him to the pen would have made SOME sense.  

This all said, I would argue that the move to the pen isn't always the answer.  Look at Arrieta, he just had to go to a place where he was freed up to throw like he did in college.  Finding the right coach, making the right change, learning a new pitch, tweaking something in the mechanics, all of that stuff, IMO is what matters.  Sure, try a failed starter in the bullpen and see what happens.  But if that guy doesn't have good stuff to begin with and/or no obvious raw talent that needs to be harnessed...well...not sure what anyone's expecting when you take a AAAA guy and say "let's try him in the pen!"

[Moose Milligan]

23 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Funny you mention Hess and act is if he has no chance of success in the pen.  That ship hasn't sailed yet.  I do agree that a pitcher needs fastball command in whatever role they're in.  I do think Hess's fastball/slider combo would play up out of the pen though.  Look at Liam Hendriks who was considered to have average to below average stuff as a starter.  I'd rather hope and take a chance than just release a guy and have someone else take that chance.  The Orioles, moreso than any team, should be taking those chances.

Ok, David Hess in the pen.  What are we betting?

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I'm betting the house that it's worth trying.

Well way to go out on a limb there.  I was wondering if you'd be betting the house on that fastball/slider combination playing up.  Lemme know.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Anyway, two scoreless innings out of the pen for Gausman last night, 2 strikeouts, no walks, one hit.  Looks like a good performance from him.  

Yeah, because he's a natural for the bullpen, because he has 2 very good pitches.  His fastball generally ticks up 2-3 MPH's out of the pen.  Remember in his rookie year, he helped out very effectively out of the pen in some key games down the stretch.  

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

They must not have liked his stuff in order to have not tried him in the bullpen.  Or something like that.  I hate the "let's put them in the pen and see what happens!" idea....I understand it, but I hate it.  That said, he should have been a candidate for that.  Maybe they asked him and he refused so they released him.  Who knows.

As my dentist likes to say, you can't handle the tooth!  When a talented pitcher has 2 good pitches (particularly if one is a fastball, because it ticks up in relief) and doesn't trust anything else,  he belongs in the bullpen.  It's common sense.  No pitcher with any brains whatsoever... is going to choose being released over going to the pen - especially when there on a team headed to the playoffs.  I don't think Gausman is completely brain-dead.  

[TINSTAAPP]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

They must not have liked his stuff in order to have not tried him in the bullpen.  Or something like that.  I hate the "let's put them in the pen and see what happens!" idea....I understand it, but I hate it.  That said, he should have been a candidate for that.  Maybe they asked him and he refused so they released him.  Who knows.

The Braves traded for three relievers at the deadline. They probably had no room for him in the bullpen.

[mdbdotcom]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

As my dentist likes to say, you can't handle the tooth!  When a talented pitcher has 2 good pitches (particularly if one is a fastball, because it ticks up in relief) and doesn't trust anything else,  he belongs in the bullpen.  It's common sense.  No pitcher with any brains whatsoever... is going to choose being released over going to the pen - especially when there on a team headed to the playoffs.  I don't think Gausman is completely brain-dead.  

TMSDS - Too Many Sugar Doughnuts Syndrome

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, TINSTAAPP said:

The Braves traded for three relievers at the deadline. They probably had no room for him in the bullpen.

And the irony is they still don't have a "true" closer. 

[Ruzious]

1 minute ago, mdbdotcom said:

TMSDS - Too Many Sugar Doughnuts Syndrome

Right, that's what my dentist called it.  

[Ruzious]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

And the irony is they still don't have a "true" closer. 

Yeah, their bullpen's gotten worse since those trades.  

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Exactly.  It's not going out on a limb to say it should be tried.  You want to have some silly kind of bet to determine if Hess's stuff plays up in a relief role and if he has any success as a reliever?  I try to avoid silly stuff.

So you say you avoid silly stuff.  And then don't want to go out and back your previous comment about Hess having his slider/fastball combo play up out of the pen by saying it's not going out on a limb to say it should be tried.