If Andy MacPhail was the O's GM....

[wildcard]

just think what he could have gotten for Schoop and Gausman.

I am not saying that MacPhail  should be the O's GM.  But the difference between what he could get in return for a trade seems massive compared to what Dan Duquette got for Jonathan and Kevin.

[brooksfrankjim]

DD didn’t have a Bedard level trade chip.

[eddie83]

Why?  The game has changed. The Bedard deal he made is an example of how teams value their own much more now. 

I saw yesterday that in all the trades made the Orioles got back 3 of the top 5 prospects. 

[Aglets]

Even though he has more years of team control it's entirely possible that KG is not quite on the same level as say.........what Erik Bedard was.

[Tony-OH]

Yeah, not sure where you are coming from here.

Neither Gausman or Schoop are Bedard level players.

Although I would have liked to have seen at least one impact guy gotten in return, neither player's value was going to much higher than they are right now.

Let's face it with Gausman. He's really a #4 pitcher, maybe #3 at best. He'll pitch better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 7 major league hitters out of 9 in the lineup (#8 guy gets waked a lot in order to pitch to the pitcher) but he was not going to be a guy you extend so might as well move him.

As for Schoop, he has major red flags for plate discipline and his range will only diminish as he gets older. I loved watching Schoop for the Orioles, but he was free agent next year and if the Orioles want him back after next year he'll be a free agent and they'll have money to spend (not saying they would do it).

Let's face it, MacPhail made one great trade with the Mariners for Bedard. I think the Orioles got a decent return for the two considering the fact that Orioles fans probably value Gausman and Schoop more than the rest of baseball.

[Tx Oriole]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

just think what he could have gotten for Schoop and Gausman.

I am not saying that MacPhail  should be the O's GM.  But the difference between what he could get in return for a trade seems massive compared to what Dan Duquette got for Jonathan and Kevin.

You have no idea what would've happened . I remember very well some some fans were down on MacPhail calling him MacFail. I think DD did pretty good myself. Of  course I'm not down on him like some fans seem to be. 

[Il BuonO]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Why?  The game has changed. The Bedard deal he made is an example of how teams value their own much more now. 

I saw yesterday that in all the trades made the Orioles got back 3 of the top 5 prospects. 

I think I know what you’re trying to say, but the Bedard trade was not an example of a team which valued its own. It was an example of giving up multiple chips to land a big time player. 

I do agree teams value their own now and AM would have difficulty pulling off the same trade today. He certainly doesn’t even get anything for Schoop in the final minutes before the deadline.

The valuation of team’s assets has changed the game.

[Catch 8]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, not sure where you are coming from here.

Neither Gausman or Schoop are Bedard level players.

Although I would have liked to have seen at least one impact guy gotten in return, neither player's value was going to much higher than they are right now.

Let's face it with Gausman. He's really a #4 pitcher, maybe #3 at best. He'll pitch better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 7 major league hitters out of 9 in the lineup (#8 guy gets waked a lot in order to pitch to the pitcher) but he was not going to be a guy you extend so might as well move him.

As for Schoop, he has major red flags for plate discipline and his range will only diminish as he gets older. I loved watching Schoop for the Orioles, but he was free agent next year and if the Orioles want him back after next year he'll be a free agent and they'll have money to spend (not saying they would do it).

Let's face it, MacPhail made one great trade with the Mariners for Bedard. I think the Orioles got a decent return for the two considering the fact that Orioles fans probably value Gausman and Schoop more than the rest of baseball.

Agreed, FWIW re everything but the last sentence--which I am too ignorant to assess.  Also, top-prospects are valued more than they were when we traded Bedard.  This is especially true in light of the cap on international signings, IMO.

[Il BuonO]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, not sure where you are coming from here.

Neither Gausman or Schoop are Bedard level players.

Although I would have liked to have seen at least one impact guy gotten in return, neither player's value was going to much higher than they are right now.

Let's face it with Gausman. He's really a #4 pitcher, maybe #3 at best. He'll pitch better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 7 major league hitters out of 9 in the lineup (#8 guy gets waked a lot in order to pitch to the pitcher) but he was not going to be a guy you extend so might as well move him.

As for Schoop, he has major red flags for plate discipline and his range will only diminish as he gets older. I loved watching Schoop for the Orioles, but he was free agent next year and if the Orioles want him back after next year he'll be a free agent and they'll have money to spend (not saying they would do it).

Let's face it, MacPhail made one great trade with the Mariners for Bedard. I think the Orioles got a decent return for the two considering the fact that Orioles fans probably value Gausman and Schoop more than the rest of baseball.

Exactly. I still think KG has very good stuff, but his inability to execute was driving me nuts. A #4 type is what the Braves think of him too, although they may improve what’s there.

And definitely agree on Schoop, approach at the plate and range to play up the middle would be my concerns.

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

just think what he could have gotten for Schoop and Gausman.

I am not saying that MacPhail  should be the O's GM.  But the difference between what he could get in return for a trade seems massive compared to what Dan Duquette got for Jonathan and Kevin.

Totally speculative.   

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, not sure where you are coming from here.

Neither Gausman or Schoop are Bedard level players.

Although I would have liked to have seen at least one impact guy gotten in return, neither player's value was going to much higher than they are right now.

Let's face it with Gausman. He's really a #4 pitcher, maybe #3 at best. He'll pitch better in the NL because they only have to pitch to 7 major league hitters out of 9 in the lineup (#8 guy gets waked a lot in order to pitch to the pitcher) but he was not going to be a guy you extend so might as well move him.

As for Schoop, he has major red flags for plate discipline and his range will only diminish as he gets older. I loved watching Schoop for the Orioles, but he was free agent next year and if the Orioles want him back after next year he'll be a free agent and they'll have money to spend (not saying they would do it).

Let's face it, MacPhail made one great trade with the Mariners for Bedard. I think the Orioles got a decent return for the two considering the fact that Orioles fans probably value Gausman and Schoop more than the rest of baseball.

Let's not just talk Bedard.  How about getting Hardy for basically nothing.  Or Davis and Hunter for Koji.    MacPhail could squeeze more out of a trade than anyone I have seen.  Certainly more than Dan got.

Gausman has the stuff to be a much better pitcher than what he has been.  Sucky defense and offense to support him.  He will do much better in Atlanta where he has a better team around him.

Schoop doesn't have to play 2B for the rest of his career.  He has all the tools to play 3B very well.   He was the O's MVP last year.  32 HR and 105 RBI with  841 OPS as a middle infielder.   Pretty dare good.  He is 26 and signable for a  team that wants to sign him to a 5 or 6 year contract.

MacPhail would have gotten way more back than Dan did.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Let's not just talk Bedard.  How about getting Hardy for basically nothing.  Or Davis and Hunter for Koji.    MacPhail could squeeze more out of a trade than anyone I have seen.  Certainly more than Dan got.

Gausman has the stuff to be a much better pitcher than what he has been.  Sucky defense and offense to support him.  He will do much better in Atlanta where he has a better team around him.

Schoop doesn't have to play 2B for the rest of his career.  He has all the tools to play 3B very well.   He was the O's MVP last year.  32 HR and 105 RBI with  841 OPS as a middle infielder.   Pretty dare good.  He is 26 and signable for a  team that wants to sign him to a 5 or 6 year contract.

MacPhail would have gotten way more back than Dan did.

First off, I would wait a couple of years before you judge these deals using your criteria of comparison.  

Second, clearly the International slot and O’Day factored into the Gausman deal.  

[TonySoprano]

Since we're guessing what Sweater Vest would've done,  if he wanted to complete these trades by the July deadline, he would have needed to start the process in the previous winter.

[CallMeBrooksie]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 

Gausman has the stuff to be a much better pitcher than what he has been.  

You could say this about almost every young starting pitcher. Gausman isn't special and neither is Schoop. Dan has made his share of shrewd moves as well.

[Whammer]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Exactly. I still think KG has very good stuff, but his inability to execute was driving me nuts. A #4 type is what the Braves think of him too, although they may improve what’s there.

And definitely agree on Schoop, approach at the plate and range to play up the middle would be my concerns.

Heard the post-trade interview with Anthopolos on MLB radio. He sure wasn't ranting and raving about Gausman. Talked more in terms of Gausman's inconsistency and their plans to work with him to improve. Said the trade was risky but they decided to take that risk to keep his top prospects in the system. Other options would have cost him prospects they wanted to keep.