If Andy MacPhail was the O's GM....

[OFFNY]

26 minutes ago, weams said:

 

o

 

That song was written by the Monkees.

 

o

[Redskins Rick]

If Andy was here as GM.

Some of those same keyboard Posters would still be up in arms and complaining.

[OFFNY]

30 minutes ago, weams said:

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

That song was written by the Monkees.

 

o

o

 

 

 

o

[Lucky_13]

First of all I don't think it's fair to say the Gausman trade is completed until the International money they got is spent. If they get Victor Victor Mesa, there's your top 100 prospect.  

Also looking at the three big trades that Macphail made only the Bedard deal is exceptional. And lets remember he was dealing a left handed borderline ace coming off a year with a 146 ERA+ and who had been trending upwards for the past three years. Kevin Gausman's  highest ERA+ is 119 in 2016.  The past two years its been 94 and 95. He's been an average mlb pitcher. To assign the two pitchers the same value is unfair. 

Its important to remember that when he traded for JJ Hardy, he had a .678 OPS with the twins and had missed almost 1/3 of the season the year before. Let's not pretend Macphail made them give up the all star version of Hardy because he was way smarter then the average GM. 

So to sit there and say that Macphail could do better than DD is some revisionist history. 

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

First of all I don't think it's fair to say the Gausman trade is completed until the International money they got is spent. If they get Victor Victor Mesa, there's your top 100 prospect.  

Also looking at the three big trades that Macphail made only the Bedard deal is exceptional. And lets remember he was dealing a left handed borderline ace coming off a year with a 146 ERA+ and who had been trending upwards for the past three years. Kevin Gausman's  highest ERA+ is 119 in 2016.  The past two years its been 94 and 95. He's been an average mlb pitcher. To assign the two pitchers the same value is unfair. 

Its important to remember that when he traded for JJ Hardy, he had a .678 OPS with the twins and had missed almost 1/3 of the season the year before. Let's not pretend Macphail made them give up the all star version of Hardy because he was way smarter then the average GM. 

So to sit there and say that Macphail could do better than DD is some revisionist history. 

JJ was a diamond in the rough, and pure genius find. I remember some sentiment in this town, was something like oh geeze, decent guy and cant stay healthy.

 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

oThat song was written by the Monkees.

 

Not quite. It was written by Mike Nesmith of the Monkees, apparently not for the Monkees at all. The song -- great song, in my opinion -- was originally recorded by the pioneering urban bluegrass band The Greenbriar Boys, fronted by the legendary John Herald. I saw the Stone Poneys as an opening act in 1967 (pretty sure it was 67) and was surprised it was in their repertoire. Not too long after that, Linda Ronstadt moved on, leaving the Stone Poneys behind. 

On the subject of the thread, I'm reminded of the old alternative history series on Saturday Night Live, posing bizarre hypothetical questions like "What if Eleanor Roosevelt Could Fly?"  I am pretty sure MacPhail would have been trying to accomplish the same things Duquette was. Would Andy have made the trades later (earlier appears not to have been an available option), or gotten different prospects, or pried more valuable guys from the Braves or Brewers, or traded with different teams? Could MacPhail have moved as quickly on multiple fronts as Duquette did, and if not what difference would it have made?

Damned if I know the answers, and I think the same is true for everyone else, including MacPhail and Duquette. By the way, a flying Eleanor Roosevelt would have been a valuable asset to the Allies in World War II, but it's sheer speculation what difference that asset would have made.

 

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

That song was written by the Monkees.

 

o

 

 

4 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

 

Not quite. It was written by Mike Nesmith of the Monkees, apparently not for the Monkees at all. The song -- great song, in my opinion -- was originally recorded by the pioneering urban bluegrass band The Greenbriar Boys, fronted by the legendary John Herald. I saw the Stone Poneys as an opening act in 1967 (pretty sure it was 67) and was surprised it was in their repertoire. Not too long after that, Linda Ronstadt moved on, leaving the Stone Poneys behind. 

 

o

 

Because Nesmith became a Monkee shortly after writing this song (and because of their being underrated as a band), I gave the group a plug/credit.

 

o

[wildcard]

6 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Andy could maximize a trade but it took forever. No way he trades six players in two weeks.

I agree on that.

[Hallas]

6 hours ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Andy could maximize a trade but it took forever. No way he trades six players in two weeks.

This is where I'm at.  Also, no way AM clears the way for a big international splash like VVM.  If Duquette makes that happen then I think the packages we got make total sense for us.

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Lucky_13 said:

First of all I don't think it's fair to say the Gausman trade is completed until the International money they got is spent. If they get Victor Victor Mesa, there's your top 100 prospect.  

Also looking at the three big trades that Macphail made only the Bedard deal is exceptional. And lets remember he was dealing a left handed borderline ace coming off a year with a 146 ERA+ and who had been trending upwards for the past three years. Kevin Gausman's  highest ERA+ is 119 in 2016.  The past two years its been 94 and 95. He's been an average mlb pitcher. To assign the two pitchers the same value is unfair. 

Its important to remember that when he traded for JJ Hardy, he had a .678 OPS with the twins and had missed almost 1/3 of the season the year before. Let's not pretend Macphail made them give up the all star version of Hardy because he was way smarter then the average GM. 

So to sit there and say that Macphail could do better than DD is some revisionist history. 

Actually Hardy had a 714 OPS with the Twins.

However,  before that he had a 821 OPS in 2008 in 629 PAs and a 786 OPS in 2007 in 638 PAs

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Damned if I know the answers, and I think the same is true for everyone else, including MacPhail and Duquette. By the way, a flying Eleanor Roosevelt would have been a valuable asset to the Allies in World War II, but it's sheer speculation what difference that asset would have made.

 

Gold my man.  Pure Gold.

[El_Duderino]

Duquette’s run with the Os > Mcphail’s Os tenure.

[wildcard]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

It’s folly to compare returns gotten by the GMs without a deep understanding of the market conditions in which they were operating.     It’s one thing to sell a pitcher coming off a career year when the FA market for pitchers is incredibly thin, and it’s another thing to sell a middling starting pitcher having a mediocre year at a time where there are many teams who are attempting rebuilds and engaged in selling lots of pitchers.

I’m not ready to judge Duquette’s trades.    I haven’t had time to compare what he got to what other teams got for their players, or to really study the players we got, or to read third party expert opinions.    My initial reaction is that these returns were a little light, but I want to study them more.    Whether MacPhail would have done better in the current market conditions is anybody’s guess.    

I think you are under rating Gausman's value when you call him a middling starting pitcher having a mediocre year.   There are 5 starting pitchers on each team and 30 teams.   That is 150 starters.  Gausman ranks 25 in IP.   He is somewhere around 31 or 32 in Quality Starts and K/BB.   

I think that we all can agree that the O's defense is terrible.  Fielders don't make plays on ball they should.  So ERA in not a good way to look at Gausman value.  Gausman would rank as a #2 starter on many teams. Not Houston, Cleveland, Boston or Seattle  but many teams.  Even the Yankees before Happ he would rank as a #2.   For Atlanta he ranks #1 in innings pitched, tied for #2 in QS, and #1 in K/BB.

You are way underrating Gausman.  If MacPhail had that kind of story to tell on Gausman he would have gotten a Top 100 player in return,  Maybe two.

[wildcard]

22 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

Duquette’s run with the Os > Mcphail’s Os tenure.

Winning games I agree.  Making trades I think MacPhail had him beat by a mile.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I think you are under rating Gausman's value when you call him a middling starting pitcher having a mediocre year.   There are 5 starting pitchers on each team and 30 teams.   That is 150 starters.  Gausman ranks 25 in IP.   He is somewhere around 31 or 32 in Quality Starts and K/BB.   

I think that we all can agree that the O's defense is terrible.  Fielders don't make plays on ball they should.  So ERA in not a good way to look at Gausman value.  Gausman would rank as a #2 starter on many teams. Not Houston, Cleveland, Boston or Seattle  but many teams.  Even the Yankees before Happ he would rank as a #2.   For Atlanta he ranks #1 in innings pitched, tied for #2 in QS, and #1 in K/BB.

You are way underrating Gausman.  If MacPhail had that kind of story to tell on Gausman he would have gotten a Top 100 player in return,  Maybe two.

Our defense stinks, but it doesn’t affect Gausman as much as you think.   ERA 4.33, FIP 4.58, xFIP 4.05.   MLB average for starting pitchers: 4.22, 4.25, 4.18.    So, I think the term “middling” is fair.   If you want to say he’s slightly above average, I might buy it.     But to me that’s not inconsistent with “middling.”