What is the first thing you want the O's to do this off season?

[JR Oriole]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

There's really just one answer to this question. Reinvest all that international money they picked up into actual players. If that doesn't happen I'm going to have a hard time believing that they want to get better (and not just save money). 

Yes.  I admit I don't follow this nearly as closely as many of you, but the stockpiling of cash and the beloved "slot money" just isn't exciting to me.  I would rather see actual activity that results in.....players.....and maybe some day, actual wins. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

I remember after the mid-90's Playoff teams the organization stating they were going in a different direction and that the farm was going to become a priority.  Then there were Albert Belle signings and I thought, "That's an interesting move to improve the farm."  Then after a few years of failure, the stated goal again was to rebuild the farm.  Then we signed Tejada.  I thought again how interesting it was that they sign a front line player to a back end team, with still no real development of the farm.  Brian Roberts arrived and was hailed as the fruit of the labor on the farm initiatives.  Then McPhail and the "Grow the arms and buy the bats."  And the first major FA signing after Buck and DD's arrival was a pitcher... and a bad one, Jimenez.

My point is that if you include the Davis deal and how it went down, ownership has a ton of fingerprints on the team that were poor decisions or merely based on getting a$$e$ in seats OR becasue they were particularly fond of someone.  The successes came when ownership butted out and allowed the better GM's we've had make the decisions.  The McPHail trades were excellent and DD's early moves to acquire Davis, O'day etc. were equally as good.

Until ownership goes back to practicing law (or sells the team) I have no real faith that we won't continue to see the same things we've seen since ole Pete acquired the club.  And just because there are only 30 spots doesn't mean anyone and everyone will be interested.  Run thru the list of managers we've gone thru prior to Buck for an illustration of just how much patience and trust our ownership has in the people they put in important positions.

So my answer, ownership needs to trust the industry.  Hire one of the most sought after minds in the game - hopefully a younger guy -(...and over pay if needs be!) and then TURN THE REINS OVER to that person to do the work they are qualified to do to rebuild this entire system. 

[Dipper9]

On 9/7/2018 at 6:46 PM, TonySoprano said:

First thing?
Issue a formal apology to the fans from ownership.

The Nats already issued a mea culpa.  It read in part..

https://curlyw.mlblogs.com/a-letter-to-nationals-fans-from-mark-d-lerner-6d7be6909c76

Good point.  Because there are a ton of fans, myself included, deciding whether to renew our season tickets next season.  

[OriolesMagic83]

4 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

There's really just one answer to this question. Reinvest all that international money they picked up into actual international players. If that doesn't happen I'm going to have a hard time believing that they want to get better (and not just save money). 

I fixed it for you.  No more investments in waiver wire material "prospects", especially 24 year old players who can't get out of the GCL.

[weams]

5 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

There's really just one answer to this question. Reinvest all that international money they picked up into actual players. If that doesn't happen I'm going to have a hard time believing that they want to get better (and not just save money). 

I don't expect that they spend half of it. 

[Tx Oriole]

28 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

I see what you’re saying, but I don’t want the organization involved in that part of the process. That’s a bit morbid for me, Tx. 

I was trying to point out no one knows when when ones time is up. My father was sick with Alzheimer's for 30 years before he died. They say Peter is not well. He could live another 10 years though. 

 

[AnythingO's]

3 hours ago, weams said:

I don't expect that they spend half of it. 

You scare me sometimes. VVM would take over half of what they have left ($8.25-$0.75 M=$7.5 M). Miami has $3.7 M I believe was the last figure I remember seeing. Are you saying no VVM? No to VVM Jr.? No to the pitcher Miami backed out on (I never remember his name)?

 

[spiritof66]

9 hours ago, weams said:

I think any non-gm that has aspirations would take the job regardless. There are thirty. Peter is not the managing general partner. 

Maybe, maybe not. It's likely that some of the most talented and ambitious assistants believe, and in some instances have been encouraged by their teams to believe, that they stand a good chance of being promoted to a GM-like position in their own organizations. Taking the Orioles job would be, by comparison, buying a pig in a poke -- and the state of the poke and the squeals coming from it might not inspire much confidence. I suspect that a lot of the best candidates will be reluctant to come to the Orioles given the state of the team, the team's well-known history of meddling by the owner, poor management and treatment of the front office, the legacy left by the owner's refusal to invest in building for the future, and the economic uncertainties it faces now and will face upon the owner's death. They all know how bad the Orioles' situation is and how difficult it will be to compete in the AL East even if there are a willingness and resources available for them to do what they would want to do in rebuilding the team.  

So far as I know, the only things that might convince a talented assistant GM that the Orioles have changed their ways are the recent trades of players approaching free agency, the retention of international slot money, and whatever John or Lou Angelos -- and possibly Duquette -- might tell them about the team's plans and commitments. That's mostly talk from people whom the candidates don't know. I'm not sure that will be enough.  

The lateness of the Orioles' decision to rebuild doesn't leave much time for the Angeloses to show they're serious about the team's direction by early October. Unless Mesa is in play, I don't see how they can spend much of the international allowance that fast without throwing it away (and jeopardizing their Mesa efforts), so the best they'll be able to do is tell GM candidates that they're willing to spent that much if he thinks they should.

I can think of a couple of things the Orioles might do to convince really strong candidates to consider and take on the job. But they won't happen. The first is to for the Angeloses to acknowledge publicly the bad decisions and mistakes of the past, clarify that they are the team's decision-makers (if they are), apologize to the fans for the mistakes and the crap team it has led to, thank them for their continuing patronage through some rough times, and lay out how they will run the team differently, in a way that can make it competitive within a few years. It would be difficult if not impossible to do that publicly -- basically, I'm suggesting that the Orioles acknowledge, in a nice way, that the owner screwed things up royally, and that those screw-ups have put the team in a big hole that they recognized belatedly and want a new GM to dig them out from. If they won't say those things publicly, they have to hope that they get a few strong candidates interested enough to hear them say them privately. The Orioles also could quickly do some of the things that might convince candidates that they will have lots of authority over a rebuild. They could change Brady's title and job description. They could fire the manager and the coaches and assure  candidates that decisions on their replacements will be left entirely to the new GM, with a salary cap of $X. 

I think the Oriole job will be a tough sell. In effect, candidates who would leave good jobs and future prospects in well-run organizations would have to take the word of John and Lou Angelos about the direction of the team, its ability and willingness to spend money to rebuild, and future working conditions in the Oriole front office. I suspect many of them will be hard-pressed to do that.

I think it's time for new leadership throughout the organization. But it might be better to keep Duquette on for a couple of years, in the hope that the prospects for hiring a top-quality successor will improve a lot based on the team's actions (in addition to its words) after that time. 

[weams]

10 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

You scare me sometimes. VVM would take over half of what they have left ($8.25-$0.75 M=$7.5 M). Miami has $3.7 M I believe was the last figure I remember seeing. Are you saying no VVM? No to VVM Jr.? No to the pitcher Miami backed out on (I never remember his name)?

 

I believe the Orioles will spend 4 million on Victor Victor. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, weams said:

I believe the Orioles will spend 4 million on Victor Victor. 

Let's say the range they think they might want to spend on Mesa is $3.75 million to $5.0 million. You want to leave something for his little brother; call it $.75 million. That leaves a maximum of about $1.75 million to spend on other guys. That may or may not be more than can be productively spent on non-Cuban international talent in the next month or so. 

If the Orioles try to hire a replacement for Duquette while they're still waiting for the Mesas, their professed commitment to international spending will still be almost entirely in the realm of words and intentions, not commitments and canceled checks.

And are we sure he's not Victor Victoria Mesa, named for the film and Broadway musical, which I'm sure was a big hit in Cuba?  

[wildcard]

14 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Maybe, maybe not. It's likely that some of the most talented and ambitious assistants believe, and in some instances have been encouraged by their teams to believe, that they stand a good chance of being promoted to a GM-like position in their own organizations. Taking the Orioles job would be, by comparison, buying a pig in a poke -- and the state of the poke and the squeals coming from it might not inspire much confidence. I suspect that a lot of the best candidates will be reluctant to come to the Orioles given the state of the team, the team's well-known history of meddling by the owner, poor management and treatment of the front office, the legacy left by the owner's refusal to invest in building for the future, and the economic uncertainties it faces now and will face upon the owner's death. They all know how bad the Orioles' situation is and how difficult it will be to compete in the AL East even if there are a willingness and resources available for them to do what they would want to do in rebuilding the team.  

So far as I know, the only things that might convince a talented assistant GM that the Orioles have changed their ways are the recent trades of players approaching free agency, the retention of international slot money, and whatever John or Lou Angelos -- and possibly Duquette -- might tell them about the team's plans and commitments. That's mostly talk from people whom the candidates don't know. I'm not sure that will be enough.  

The lateness of the Orioles' decision to rebuild doesn't leave much time for the Angeloses to show they're serious about the team's direction by early October. Unless Mesa is in play, I don't see how they can spend much of the international allowance that fast without throwing it away (and jeopardizing their Mesa efforts), so the best they'll be able to do is tell GM candidates that they're willing to spent that much if he thinks they should.

I can think of a couple of things the Orioles might do to convince really strong candidates to consider and take on the job. But they won't happen. The first is to for the Angeloses to acknowledge publicly the bad decisions and mistakes of the past, clarify that they are the team's decision-makers (if they are), apologize to the fans for the mistakes and the crap team it has led to, thank them for their continuing patronage through some rough times, and lay out how they will run the team differently, in a way that can make it competitive within a few years. It would be difficult if not impossible to do that publicly -- basically, I'm suggesting that the Orioles acknowledge, in a nice way, that the owner screwed things up royally, and that those screw-ups have put the team in a big hole that they recognized belatedly and want a new GM to dig them out from. If they won't say those things publicly, they have to hope that they get a few strong candidates interested enough to hear them say them privately. The Orioles also could quickly do some of the things that might convince candidates that they will have lots of authority over a rebuild. They could change Brady's title and job description. They could fire the manager and the coaches and assure  candidates that decisions on their replacements will be left entirely to the new GM, with a salary cap of $X. 

I think the Oriole job will be a tough sell. In effect, candidates who would leave good jobs and future prospects in well-run organizations would have to take the word of John and Lou Angelos about the direction of the team, its ability and willingness to spend money to rebuild, and future working conditions in the Oriole front office. I suspect many of them will be hard-pressed to do that.

I think it's time for new leadership throughout the organization. But it might be better to keep Duquette on for a couple of years, in the hope that the prospects for hiring a top-quality successor will improve a lot based on the team's actions (in addition to its words) after that time. 

There is no apology necessary to any one.  The O's won more games than anyone in the AL from 2012-2016.    That was with the current owner and the current management team.    The new GM, (and I hope there will be a new GM) will want to know how much control he has over  who is hire under him, i.e. manager, scouting, player development.  He will want to know how much control he has over trades, releases and his budget.   If those answers are acceptable, most any young GM will take the job.

The team is in a better position now than it was when Duquette was hire.  Than they had lost for 11 years and the environment was toxic.  That is not true now.  There is a rebuild to be done.  It will take time.  But if John and Lou are really in charge and they are reasonable this franchise can attract a talented GM.

There is also no economic uncertainty.   The O's have signal with the trade of Gausman and Schoop that they are taking the payroll into the dirt.   Over the next year everyone except Davis that is making any kind of decent money will be traded or let go.  The money the O's get from MLB for TV, the MASN revenue, the revenue sharing and other league revenues will keep the O's profitable with that kind of payroll no matter how much  attendance may fall.  The attendance will come back as the O's build and begin to win again in a few years.

 

 

[TonySoprano]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There is no apology necessary to any one.  The O's won more games than anyone in the AL from 2012-2016.    That was with the current owner and the current management team.    The new GM, (and I hope there will be a new GM) will want to know how much control he has over  who is hire under him, i.e. manager, scouting, player development.  He will want to know how much control he has over trades, releases and his budget.   If those answers are acceptable, most any young GM will take the job.

The team is in a better position now than it was when Duquette was hire.  Than they had lost for 11 years and the environment was toxic.  That is not true now.  There is a rebuild to be done.  It will take time.  But if John and Lou are really in charge and they are reasonable this franchise can attract a talented GM.

There is also no economic uncertainty.   The O's have signal with the trade of Gausman and Schoop that they are taking the payroll into the dirt.   Over the next year everyone except Davis that is making any kind of decent money will be traded or let go.  The money the O's get from MLB for TV, the MASN revenue, the revenue sharing and other league revenues will keep the O's profitable with that kind of payroll no matter how much  attendance may fall.  The attendance will come back as the O's build and begin to win again in a few years.

No apology?  Does 2012-16 get them a pass for what will be the worst Orioles team in its 65 year history?  Attendance in 2014 was lower than 2005, and the latter was the first year of the Washington Nationals.  Bounce back?

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

No apology?  Does 2012-16 get them a pass for what will be the worst Orioles team in its 65 year history?  Attendance in 2014 was lower than 2005, and the latter was the first year of the Washington Nationals.  Bounce back?

I guess it depends on whether you understand the realities to major league baseball or not.     Any team that can't pay 200m in payroll on a regular basis is going to go through a cycle.   Collect core players and win to a peak and then go down hill to the bottom.   Its the way the draft is structured.  If you win, you draft low.  If you lose you draft high. The O's rode the wave up for about five years and they have ridden it down to bottom.  It makes very little difference if the O's lose 115 or 85.  Either way they are still not be a playoff team and need to rebuild.

They is no apology needed to a fan the understands the normal baseball cycle.  It is a rare team that can avoid it unless they are the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers that can afford to spend their way through the bottom of the cycle.

 

[Redskins Rick]

Hire me a whole new team of experts.

GM - Wildcard

Head Lawyer - Frobby

Manager - Tony-OH

Head of Scouting Department - Luke

Head of Public Relations - Roy Firestone

Head of Research Department - OFF-NY

New Pitching Coach - Can of Corn

New Third Base Coach - Tony S

New First Base Coach -  Dipper

Bench Coach - Weams

Team Historian - Durango

 

[Ruzious]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I guess it depends on whether you understand the realities to major league baseball or not.     Any team that can't pay 200m in payroll on a regular basis is going to go through a cycle.   Collect core players and win to a peak and then go down hill to the bottom.   Its the way the draft is structured.  If you win, you draft low.  If you lose you draft high. The O's rode the wave up for about five years and they have ridden it down to bottom.  It makes very little difference if the O's lose 115 or 85.  Either way they are still not be a playoff team and need to rebuild.

They is no apology needed to a fan the understands the normal baseball cycle.  It is a rare team that can avoid it unless they are the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers that can afford to spend their way through the bottom of the cycle.

 

When does the cycle where we get to the WS start?