Joseph for the second time calls out the team

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Yup, they need to show they have the fire, drive, and skills to hold that job next year.

Agreed bud, and that's the biggest takeaway I took from Joseph's quotes. My concern is that these guys were brought into a bad environment with a team leader (Jones) no longer caring, and manager and coaching staff that are playing out this embarrassing string knowing that are setting records for futility that will always be on their records.

These young players should be hungry and they should ultra motivated to show they belong here, but besides Mullins, who has stepped up and showed they belonged? What rookie pitcher has come up and made you excited about their future? Scott, Fry, Hess all showed some ability but all have some warts as well. Don't get me started on the pitchers we received in the trades who were brought up. Each of them have been a disaster. Yacobonis, Meisinger, Gilmartin are not answers to anything other than the question how many up down relievers can you bring up in one season.

Who is that can't miss impact minor league player ready to come up that the Orioles can build around? Diaz is a nice prospect, but I don't think he's superstar in the making. Mountcastle has defensive concerns and his power wasn't great this year. Hays had injury issues and didn't perform well when healthy. 

Kremer might be the best of the guys we got in the trades and could end up in the rotation next year at some point and Akin could as well, so those are two upper level bright spots but neither guy are TORs you build your rotation around. The two potential TORs are DL Hall and Grayson Rodriguez and neither have pitched above Delmarva which means they have a long road to stay healthy and productive to.

At the end of the day, the only thing that will bring any excitement about the future is new leadership that will bring a new culture to the organization and that's only if the sons will allow that to happen. 

Guess we get to see.

 

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't Wieters' defense go in the tank years ago?  Isn't he known as a poor framer?  Haven't folks questioned his game calling?

Not everybody was in agreement about that, if you remember the long debates we had on this subject.

 

[LookitsPuck]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

In the Athletic article he calls it an “open tryout team” and doesn’t feel it should be that way next year. 

 

The owner doesn’t invest Internationally, will not spend on top flight pitching and yet once the club started winning wanted that to continue. 

If you are going to try to extend out your competitive window sacrifices have to be made. It floors me how many people must think DD is stupid. I mean he had no idea this team was aging? 

I don't think Duquette is stupid. I just don't think he's a great GM. You're right re: not investing internationally. And I honestly give two craps about about spending on top flight pitching. There are quite a few teams that get by on much less of a payroll than the Orioles and have had much, much, much better pitching staffs over the years.

RE: about it being an open tryout team. Well, considering this club is pretty much a bunch of old vets and AAAA players...who should be at fault for that? Sure as hell shouldn't be Buck.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Agreed bud, and that's the biggest takeaway I took from Joseph's quotes. My concern is that these guys were brought into a bad environment with a team leader (Jones) no longer caring, and manager and coaching staff that are playing out this embarrassing string knowing that are setting records for futility that will always be on their records.

These young players should be hungry and they should ultra motivated to show they belong here, but besides Mullins, who has stepped up and showed they belonged? What rookie pitcher has come up and made you excited about their future? Scott, Fry, Hess all showed some ability but all have some warts as well. Don't get me started on the pitchers we received in the trades who were brought up. Each of them have been a disaster. Yacobonis, Meisinger, Gilmartin are not answers to anything other than the question how many up down relievers can you bring up in one season.

Who is that can't miss impact minor league player ready to come up that the Orioles can build around? Diaz is a nice prospect, but I don't think he's superstar in the making. Mountcastle has defensive concerns and his power wasn't great this year. Hays had injury issues and didn't perform well when healthy. 

Kremer might be the best of the guys we got in the trades and could end up in the rotation next year at some point and Akin could as well, so those are two upper level bright spots but neither guy are TORs you build your rotation around. The two potential TORs are DL Hall and Grayson Rodriguez and neither have pitched above Delmarva which means they have a long road to stay healthy and productive to.

At the end of the day, the only thing that will bring any excitement about the future is new leadership that will bring a new culture to the organization and that's only if the sons will allow that to happen. 

Guess we get to see.

 

Im okay with starting fresh and new, and get a new culture here.

I dont trust Angelos ability, which for the most part, outside of Andy and DD, brought in people that didnt have the skillset to get the job done.

This scares the crap out of me.

Maybe the two boys will be better, lets pray they are.

 

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Didn't Wieters' defense go in the tank years ago?  Isn't he known as a poor framer?  Haven't folks questioned his game calling?

Yes to all of that. Wieters' defense acume was always tied to his arm earlier in his career. He was not well known for any other aspects of being a good defensive catcher and his "leadership" qualities were overblown here as well. He's a well below average catcher at this stage in his career.

[LookitsPuck]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Not everybody was in agreement about that, if you remember the long debates we had on this subject.

 

Wieters had a great arm and could block the plate. But he called a terrible game and couldn't frame for crap. On top of that, he had a tendency to backhand a lot of pitches instead of getting in front of it later in his career. 

[eddie83]

If I am running the Baltimore Sun sports department or another local writer an autopsy of the season is a must write. 

We have had plenty of articles describing the issues inside the organization but this season and really going back to Sept 2017 needs to be examined closely. Something other than lack of talent has caused this debacle of a season. Yes they are bad but the entire culture has been shredded almost overnight. Even last year until Labor Day this flawed team found a way to hang around.  

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Im okay with starting fresh and new, and get a new culture here.

I dont trust Angelos ability, which for the most part, outside of Andy and DD, brought in people that didnt have the skillset to get the job done.

This scares the crap out of me.

Maybe the two boys will be better, lets pray they are.

 

Literally this may be all that we got at this point.

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

I don't think Duquette is stupid. I just don't think he's a great GM. You're right re: not investing internationally. And I honestly give two craps about about spending on top flight pitching. There are quite a few teams that get by on much less of a payroll than the Orioles and have had much, much, much better pitching staffs over the years.

RE: about it being an open tryout team. Well, considering this club is pretty much a bunch of old vets and AAAA players...who should be at fault for that? Sure as hell shouldn't be Buck.

My point is a team is this market that tries to extend it’s window cut corners elsewhere. You eventually pay a price for that.  

Our owner has never figured out who we are. He is a year by year kind of an owner. 

I think Caleb is referring to the fact these guys have been handed jobs and have not earned them.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Wieters had a great arm and could block the plate. But he called a terrible game and couldn't frame for crap. On top of that, he had a tendency to backhand a lot of pitches instead of getting in front of it later in his career. 

Actually early in his career he was a slightly above average framer.  As he got older he got worse.  Harder to get that big frame down.

[Going Underground]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Literally this may be all that we got at this point.

And no Brady please He worked with Davis.Worked with Yacobonis. Helped sign some pitchers and offensive players that have flopped 

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Going Underground said:

And no Brady please He worked with Davis.Worked with Yacobonis. Helped sign some pitchers and offensive players that have flopped 

Went, where he was directed and help neogiate players that he was told to go after.

So why can you fault him?

He also got Cobb and Cashner here, both was two of the top 5 FA available, according to MLBTR.

So it was Brady who told Peter to outbit himself for CD?

[eddie83]

If Dan is brought back it is basically a direct indictment of Peter Angelos by his own sons. They are saying that Peter did not put the foundation in place to be successful. They want to see what Dan can do with the limitations removed. 

[gmelson26]

12 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

In the Athletic article he calls it an “open tryout team” and doesn’t feel it should be that way next year. 

 

The owner doesn’t invest Internationally, will not spend on top flight pitching and yet once the club started winning wanted that to continue. 

If you are going to try to extend out your competitive window sacrifices have to be made. It floors me how many people must think DD is stupid. I mean he had no idea this team was aging? 

If you're not going to invest internationally, then all the more reason NOT to trade or give up what few precious draft picks you had.

[LA2]

4 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Joseph said something about a week ago about unacceptable play and caring. Also did yesterday. Not sure if he is the solution or part of the problem.. Saying losing is the new winning and no one cares has to fall on the coaches as well. But at least Bobby Dickerson teaches the guys to straddle the bag.

 

“It’s embarrassing,’’ veteran catcher Caleb Joseph said before the game. “It’s shameful, especially for somebody who was on a 97-win team just a few years ago. It’s ridiculous. We’ve lost so many games and it seems like losing is the new winning. It’s unacceptable.”

 

"The culture needs to be mixed up and baked again,’’ Joseph said. “The culture needs some work. It needs some adjusting. It needs some additions. It needs some subtractions. It needs some work. ...

 

“Quite honestly, I don’t see that many folks that are actually ticked off about it.”

“I don’t care if you’re just excited to be here … just excited to get a major league call-up,’’ he said. “OK, that’s fine. If it’s your first day in the big leagues, enjoy it. After that, it’s business and there are people’s jobs and careers that are on the line. It’s not, ‘Who cares. We’re not in the race. Just go out and have fun and try your best.’ Not good enough. NOT good enough.”

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orijoles-have-a-right-to-be-embarrassed-20180917-story.html

Thank you, Caleb.