BR: O's farm system 18th; list of 10 prospects

[weams]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think that Gausman had more value than was realized.

Wade Miley. Jeremy Hellickson. 

[bpilktree]

4 minutes ago, weams said:

It was 100% about the money for the Marlins. New owners are always in great debt. 

True but they still got little for guys with lots of control and not a ton of money on their contracts except for Stanton.  Ozuna had the same smount of team control as Schoop and cost about the same.  They traded him with 2 years left in the off season and got less then we got for Schoop and Ozuna had a better year then a Schoop. 

Trading has a lot to do with timing.  The Yankees like usual got lucky and when they were looking to trade had the Cubs and Indians both in contention and also a team that hasn’t won a championship in years.  They also had top farm systems at the time when wanting to make a trade.  This year if you look who has the best farm systems besides the Braves the teams in contention have weak farms.  

[bpilktree]

Most of these lists favor teams that have a major impact player compared to death.  Even if you look at the Years were we were ranked high in prospect rankings we had some top guys but our overall depth was terrible behind those few guys.  Now we have very solid depth but not the impact prospect if we can add two or three top guys we will sky rocket quickly up the prospect list.  Similar to the White Sox did.  They were bottom farm few years ago but added Jimenez and Kopech and flew up the rankings.

[TheOtherRipken]

I struggle to comprehend ranking Tate ahead of Mullins, if it wasn’t already Bleacher Report and was a source I trusted, that would hurt list credibility for me.

[connja]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Jim Callis agrees with BR.  He said in August after the traded that he hadn't done the analysis yet but  his gut feeling was the O's system was between 15-20.     He also said they should have gotten a top prospect for Gausman.   Maybe the ranking goes up if they sign VVM.

Agree, they definitely should have waited til the off-season to trade Gausman.  

[ScGO's]

I think 18 is an encouraging ranking.  It shows that as disastrous as we were this year, going into our first few months of the rebuild we are already in the middle of the pack and its expected that we will rise fast with 2-3 years of solid drafts and some intl scouting budget to look forward too.  We still have potential trade assets moving into 2019 such as Bundy, Givens, Villar, and Cobb that could bring back a few players.  If we sign VVM and his bro, we will be strongly cemented in the middle of the pack as far as milb systems go. 

I do believe our system's  strength is in our depth which I think was vastly improved in the deadline trades even if it didn't bring back elite prospects beyond Diaz.  Competition drives competition and I worry that the lack of depth in our system killed the fighting spirit in some of our prospects.  That lack in competition may come from playing for a losing team which our system produces a lot of.  You can also see a lack of competition among teammates as no one is really pushing anyone else for playing time and prospects may get comfortable or lazy if their ego isn't kept in check by several players nipping at your heels. I mean even Eric Salcedo didn't have to look over his shoulder much this year.  I do think our system will be stronger and more competitive next year.  I could see playoff teams all through out the system next year (Maybe not Delmarva), even at short season depending on how we draft and how the intl signs develop (GCL at best I would think?).

 

 

[25 Nuggets]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not really surprising. 

And that's what I hate about it

[Cumberbundy]

2 hours ago, weams said:

Wade Miley. Jeremy Hellickson. 

Chris Archer. 

[Cumberbundy]

1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

I think 18 is an encouraging ranking.  It shows that as disastrous as we were this year, going into our first few months of the rebuild we are already in the middle of the pack and its expected that we will rise fast with 2-3 years of solid drafts and some intl scouting budget to look forward too.  We still have potential trade assets moving into 2019 such as Bundy, Givens, Villar, and Cobb that could bring back a few players.  If we sign VVM and his bro, we will be strongly cemented in the middle of the pack as far as milb systems go. 

I do believe our system's  strength is in our depth which I think was vastly improved in the deadline trades even if it didn't bring back elite prospects beyond Diaz.  Competition drives competition and I worry that the lack of depth in our system killed the fighting spirit in some of our prospects.  That lack in competition may come from playing for a losing team which our system produces a lot of.  You can also see a lack of competition among teammates as no one is really pushing anyone else for playing time and prospects may get comfortable or lazy if their ego isn't kept in check by several players nipping at your heels. I mean even Eric Salcedo didn't have to look over his shoulder much this year.  I do think our system will be stronger and more competitive next year.  I could see playoff teams all through out the system next year (Maybe not Delmarva), even at short season depending on how we draft and how the intl signs develop (GCL at best I would think?).

 

 

What important about depth? A lot of possible 4th OFs and long relief arms? 

[sevastras]

33 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

What important about depth? A lot of possible 4th OFs and long relief arms? 

Depth allows you to not have all of your eggs in one basket and possible trade chips. The OF depth is encouraging because if say, Mullins doesn’t work, maybe a McKenna can. I’m not suggesting this, just gives you options and you don’t crumble in a corner if a guy doesn’t pan out. Orioles seemingly drafted well this year(obviously too early to be sure) so that is also encouraging. 

I would rather have A lockdown OF and bullpen and have guys blocked that you can trade for needs than to be looking for an OF that is someone else’s 4 or free agent. 

[Cumberbundy]

10 minutes ago, sevastras said:

Depth allows you to not have all of your eggs in one basket and possible trade chips. The OF depth is encouraging because if say, Mullins doesn’t work, maybe a McKenna can. I’m not suggesting this, just gives you options and you don’t crumble in a corner if a guy doesn’t pan out. Orioles seemingly drafted well this year(obviously too early to be sure) so that is also encouraging. 

I would rather have A lockdown OF and bullpen and have guys blocked that you can trade for needs than to be looking for an OF that is someone else’s 4 or free agent. 

You are absolutely right, and it gives us more potential Haders, but without the elite guys depth is not winning us anything. But, as you point out, if Hall, Rodriguez, Witt, Hays, and Mountcastle reach their potential, then the depth gives us more hope and competition for the complementary pieces that can be overlooked, specifically, by me in the post you just responded to.

In the short bit of time we had Carmona in our system, Adam Hall was significantly better. I can’t necessarily claim there is a direct correlation, but competition never hurts, and often times brings out the best in people in all aspects of life.

Heck of a post, @sevastras

[atomic]

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

Jim Callis agrees with BR.  He said in August after the traded that he hadn't done the analysis yet but  his gut feeling was the O's system was between 15-20.     He also said they should have gotten a top prospect for Gausman.   Maybe the ranking goes up if they sign VVM.

I thought he said 16 to 22.  He also said stars are what win championships and we lack stars in our system.

[Cumberbundy]

40 minutes ago, atomic said:

I thought he said 16 to 22.  He also said stars are what win championships and we lack stars in our system.

Hall, Witt, Mesa give us 3. Rodriguez gives us a possible 4th. Hays, Mountcastle, Diaz give us 3 more guys with, at minimum, outside shots at being very good mlb players. Harvey, Kremer, Akin, Lowther, Ortiz, Wells, Tate give us 7 arms that could be #3 starters or 4/5s. Scott could be an all star closer. Yac, Pop and Carroll could all be very strong late inning RPs. 

Hall, Encarnacion, Fenter, Curran, Reyes, Carmona are high talent lottery tickets.

Mullins and DJ Stewart are here. 

Maybe we find some people to develop these talented youngsters and get back sooner than most project. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

Hall, Witt, Mesa give us 3. Rodriguez gives us a possible 4th. Hays, Mountcastle, Diaz give us 3 more guys with, at minimum, outside shots at being very good mlb players. Harvey, Kremer, Akin, Lowther, Ortiz, Wells, Tate give us 7 arms that could be #3 starters or 4/5s. Scott could be an all star closer. Yac, Pop and Carroll could all be very strong late inning RPs. 

Hall, Encarnacion, Fenter, Curran, Reyes, Carmona are high talent lottery tickets.

Mullins and DJ Stewart are here. 

Maybe we find some people to develop these talented youngsters and get back sooner than most project. 

You don't think it's premature to call Hall a star?  Bundy  was in the majors at this stage of his development and he didn't become a star.

Even if they sign VVM their is no guarantee he hits at the ML level.

[weams]

6 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

What important about depth? A lot of possible 4th OFs and long relief arms? 

J.D Martinez if you don't release him.