Britton on the use of analytics in New York vs. Baltimore

[PaulFolk]

36 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

Anyone can have all the data they can handle. Still have to execute.

Not if they play for the Orioles, apparently.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I know this will probably make me sound like an ageist, but I think Dan and Buck were both too "old school" to embrace and/or push the use of analytics. 

I'm against ageists. I've learn more about more the last ten years than I ever did before.  

[eddie83]

18 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Also, I don't think people realize how much of a drop in the bucket a true analytics department would cost. But it comes from the top. And by the top...I don't mean the owner. I mean the GM. 

Look at what Huntington did. He got Clint f'ing Hurdle to buy into it. He had a rag tag group of people that was integrated every day on the field, with the players, strategizing with Hurdle, etc.

I’ll give you credit, no matter what the evidence says you have dug your heels in concerning DD.  

Simpe question. Why would any GM look to cut corners and make their job more difficult? I also assume you think Dan is the reason we lacked pro scouts even though much like analytics this was an issue he inherited. 

I guess what happened is Dan didn’t think trying to compete with Boston and NY was enough of a challenge so he wanted to make his job even more difficult.  

[LookitsPuck]

16 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’ll give you credit, no matter what the evidence says you have dug your heels in concerning DD.  

Simpe question. Why would any GM look to cut corners and make their job more difficult? I also assume you think Dan is the reason we lacked pro scouts even though much like analytics this was an issue he inherited. 

I guess what happened is Dan didn’t think trying to compete with Boston and NY was enough of a challenge so he wanted to make his job even more difficult.  

I don't think Duquette is intentionally cutting corners re: analytics. I just don't think he's much of a pioneer and is more of an old school GM.

[LookitsPuck]

26 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I know this will probably make me sound like an ageist, but I think Dan and Buck were both too "old school" to embrace and/or push the use of analytics. 

It doesn't across as ageist unless you're intentionally saying it's because of their age. Duquette is 60. He joined the O's when he was 51. Buck, surprisingly, is 62. I didn't realize Duquette and Buck were so close in age.

That said, Clint Hurdle is the same age. And he embraced it...but it took convincing. That's kind of what I was driving at earlier: Duquette probably isn't an analytical wonk and therefore only dipped his feet into it...for whatever reason. He just never came across to me as much of a pioneer. Maybe that's the era that he came up in baseball. I think a forward thinking GM can push some old school, hard nosed managers.

[wildbillhiccup]

33 minutes ago, weams said:

I'm against ageists. I've learn more about more the last ten years than I ever did before.  

I agree, it's not a good look. In Buck's case though he never seemed that interested (on the surface) in embracing analytics. 

[esmd]

Seems to me the use (or non-use) of analytics is as much, or really more on the manager than the GM.  Dan could've pushed for it all he wanted, but if Buck wasn't having it, Dan would've just been peeing in the wind.  To fully embrace analytics, you need a GM willing to gather and analyze the data (or employ someone or more than one person to do so), and a manager and coaching staff that embraces it and provides it to players and applies it themselves during in-game situations.  You also need ownership that believes in, hires personnel as described above, and provides the financial support for gathering and analysis.

[MCO'sFan]

2 hours ago, Satyr3206 said:

Anyone can have all the data they can handle. Still have to execute.

Just imagine the type of year he could have had in 2016...it may have been historic! Yes, this is sarcasm. I think most of the things players say to the media is prompted my the media. You can hear when they broadcast the interviews. Most responses start off with..."yes, I think your right...that makes a big difference" or "absolutely". This is completely overblown.

[esmd]

7 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Just imagine the type of year he could have had in 2016...it may have been historic! Yes, this is sarcasm. I think most of the things players say to the media is prompted my the media. You can hear when they broadcast the interviews. Most responses start off with..."yes, I think your right...that makes a big difference" or "absolutely". This is completely overblown.

While overall I agree with you, in this case Britton went out of his way to state that he wasn't getting this info in Baltimore.  He could've just said that it's great info and it helps him prepare and be more effective, the standard boilerplate response.  But he didn't do that, he went out of his way to say how much more it was in NY vice here.  That's not overblown, IMO, and it's fair to conclude that we're behind other teams.

[Finisher]

Would bet teams like Oakland and Tampa have strong analytics departments. It makes a huge difference. Knowing how to pitch batters better, knowing how to hit pitchers better, pitch sequencing .. 

You don't go, what, 90 games below .500 over a year and a half on simply inferior talent. There was more going on. I actually credit Britton for speaking up here, 90% of guys would've given generic answers.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, esmd said:

While overall I agree with you, in this case Britton went out of his way to state that he wasn't getting this info in Baltimore.  He could've just said that it's great info and it helps him prepare and be more effective, the standard boilerplate response.  But he didn't do that, he went out of his way to say how much more it was in NY vice here.  That's not overblown, IMO, and it's fair to conclude that we're behind other teams.

The teams investing in analytics are in the playoffs.

Reminds me of the old story about Davy Johnson coming to Earl the Weave about how the stats prove he needed to play more. We know how well that went over.

Not everybody is a fan of the stat geeks:

Quote

“Not that there’s anything wrong with having all the latest stats available, but it’s tough to quantify qualities such as ‘heart,’ ‘desire,’ and ‘intestinal fortitude.’ Moreover, Davey’s computer might dutifully report that a player went hitless in four at-bats but totally miss the fact that all four outs were hard-hit balls or long fly balls just inches away from being home runs.”

[Gary] Carter’s sentiments were in line with most baseball insiders back then.

https://footer.mlblogs.com/before-there-was-moneyball-there-was-davey-johnson-d1cd79fdfb86

 

[NCRaven]

Fact is, Britton was the best closer in history with the O’sin 2016. Today with the Yankees, he’s another guy in the bullpen.

2018 O’s didn’t suck because they lacked analytics, they just sucked and you didn’t need a computer to tell you that.

[Camden_yardbird]

So let's be honest here about this article.  Its Britton saying the Yankees are much better at analytics, which I buy into, and completely think the Orioles need to go into 100%. 

But at the same time, its Britton, who had arguably the best year ever for a reliever without those analytics.  It's not like analytics is the be all, end all of success.

What it would do is help the Orioles compete on the fringes, maximize certain matchups and perhaps identify underutilized talent (Voit).  As a small market team they cant afford to give those fringes to large market teams.

[Going Underground]

I noticed this and probably means nothing but some teams give their outfielders a card of where to play certain players and they keep it in their back pocket On the Orioles I see Kirby whistling and screaming at the outfielders where to move.I know cards and reams of copu paper are expensive, so that might be the reason. Even saw in the playoffs, one of the pitchers I think from the Braves reach for a card before facing a hitter 

[DrungoHazewood]

I assume this is standard for the Orioles: they've improved quite a bit over the past decade, but the other teams have improved more quickly.  The 2003 Orioles were a state of the art franchise for 1985.  Maybe now they're only a few years behind.