The Rebuild Strategy

[El Gordo]

 Isee no point in doing much in FA beyond maybe a RP or two and some SP ST invites. Let whomever seems ready in the MiL play.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

 Isee no point in doing much in FA beyond maybe a RP or two and some SP ST invites. Let whomever seems ready in the MiL play.

For once, I really agree with you!

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

Wasn't that basically the formula from 98-2011? Sign middling FA and hope the young players developed. That worked well.

It's even better. Because now we're going to sign them AND trade them for something of value. What could possibly go wrong. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

 What could possibly go wrong. 

[Camden_yardbird]

23 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't see the point of bringing in middling free agents and not letting our young players learn and develop. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. 

Because not every player can learn and develop in the major leagues.  For instance, hitters with a particular flaw, get into games where literally every pitcher can and will exploit that flaw.  In the minor leagues they can work on that, adjust and fix their hitting technique to address that problem.  So the idea that a free agent is always blocking development is a non starter.

Your other mistake is thinking that a player who is available at a reasonable price in free agency will not develop value.  Rebuilding teams often target players who will be able to be traded if they are performing.  If they are not, their contracts arent prohibitive and they can be sat. 

For instance,  the Royals signing of Moustakas this past year (a player without much market) netted them prospects from the Brewers.  Cameron maybin, Wilson Ramos, leonys Martin, lance Lynn, zach Duke, Johnny venters, jaokim soria, seung-hwan oh, Nate Eovaldi and Steve Pearce were all players on 1 or 2 year deals who were able to net return value in trades.

The Ray's, who in any other division in the league probably had a chance at the playoffs, took 2 year chances on injured players Eovaldi and Ramos and got value back, staying competitive and building their system, despite paying those players for a year of injury time.

If the Ray's and Blue Jay's (who had multiple players on the above list) did this to effect (despite the Blue Jay's having a far stronger system than the Orioles will be next year) then doesn't show the need for the Orioles to explore that path of talent acquisition or risk falling behind their direct competitors?

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Because not every player can learn and develop in the major leagues.  For instance, hitters with a particular flaw, get into games where literally every pitcher can and will exploit that flaw.  In the minor leagues they can work on that, adjust and fix their hitting technique to address that problem.  So the idea that a free agent is always blocking development is a non starter.

Your other mistake is thinking that a player who is available at a reasonable price in free agency will not develop value.  Rebuilding teams often target players who will be able to be traded if they are performing.  If they are not, their contracts arent prohibitive and they can be sat. 

For instance,  the Royals signing of Moustakas this past year (a player without much market) netted them prospects from the Brewers.  Cameron maybin, Wilson Ramos, leonys Martin, lance Lynn, zach Duke, Johnny venters, jaokim soria, seung-hwan oh, Nate Eovaldi and Steve Pearce were all players on 1 or 2 year deals who were able to net return value in trades.

The Ray's, who in any other division in the league probably had a chance at the playoffs, took 2 year chances on injured players Eovaldi and Ramos and got value back, staying competitive and building their system, despite paying those players for a year of injury time.

If the Ray's and Blue Jay's (who had multiple players on the above list) did this to effect (despite the Blue Jay's have a far stronger system than the Orioles will be next year) then doesn't show the need for the Orioles to explore that path of talent acquisition or risk falling behind their direct competitors?

...but success at the minor league level doesn't guarantee success at the major league level. We have a unique situation in that we can afford to let young players grow and learn over the next few years. If we have players who we think are ready or close to ready it would be silly to waste at bats on players like the free agents you mentioned. The primary goals next season should be to 1) continue to add depth to the farm system and 2) have a clearer understanding of our long term strengths and weaknesses by the end of the season. The only way you're truly going to answer that second question is if you give the higher level prospects a shot at the major league level. 

Also, the Rays and Blue Jays are MUCH better teams then us with better farm systems. We know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we are going to finish dead last next season.  The Blue Jays and Rays weren't in the same position going into the 2018 season.

 

[Dark Helmet]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

They had a nice run, so did the Orioles, sadly they got a WS ring and this team didnt,

The Orioles had the best team in baseball in 2014 IMHO. Unfortunately, they ran into a hot KC team in the ALCS.

[mdbdotcom]

3 hours ago, El Gordo said:

 Isee no point in doing much in FA beyond maybe a RP or two and some SP ST invites. Let whomever seems ready in the MiL play.

I would like to see them sign a really good defensive veteran catcher who can't hit (to keep his salary down). IMHO, development of young pitchers can be accelerated by having a catcher who has the experience to lead them through a game. We don't have a catcher like that now. No, Caleb Joseph is not a really good defensive catcher.

[Chavez Ravine]

38 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

I would like to see them sign a really good defensive veteran catcher who can't hit (to keep his salary down). IMHO, development of young pitchers can be accelerated by having a catcher who has the experience to lead them through a game. We don't have a catcher like that now. No, Caleb Joseph is not a really good defensive catcher.

 

[Ruzious]

4 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So you want them to acquire middling free agents, play them everyday and hope they thrive, then flip them for prospects? C'mon now, we're talking about a team that could barely execute a sell off of players who were in pretty high demand. They can stick with the players they already have under contract (like Villar), but I see no point in trading for and/or signing more of them. 

The whole idea is to trade Villar for a much needed quality prospect or 2; NOT keep him.  Then rinse and repeat.  I want another Villar - which is... what I said.  And I think he WILL get traded for something we need - legit propects - which again is what I said.  We have one infielder now - Villar.  I'd like to add another him.  And who's there for him to block at SS or 2nd base?  Nobody for next season.  And unless Mountcastle is really a 3rd basemen, there's nobody to block at 3rd.  We're not going to build a championship team with players like Nunez.  We NEED to acquire better prospects if we're ever going to build a team like Houston or Atlanta, and that's one way to do it.        

[Ripken]

We are at step 0: figuring out who the owner is going forward.  I'm not convinced it's the sons.  I think many in MLB hate Angelos.

That person(s) has to find a GM, and together find a Manager, Coaches, Scouts, and other warehouse and MiLB personnel.   Then they need to develop and implement an organization-wide plan for the Orioles and all minor league affiliates.  International signings, Rule 5s, MiLB free agents, and preparing for the draft with #1 overall, are just the start of a massive and complete rebuild.

2019 is already 108 loses.

[weams]

8 minutes ago, Ripken said:

We are at step 0: figuring out who the owner is going forward.  I'm not convinced it's the sons.  I think many in MLB hate Angelos.

 

Step 1 Figured out where the home games will be played in a few seasons. 

[weams]

I believe the rebuild strategy will be designed by whoever the Angelos brothers buy to run the Baseball Ops.  I believe the Angelos brother will give him a small budget. 

[AnythingO's]

I believe John will pick an experienced exec with mileage on him (Ned?) and that Brady will continue to have John's ear. They will make the right statements but little will change relative to ownership interference. I am depressed.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

17 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

I believe John will pick an experienced exec with mileage on him (Ned?) and that Brady will continue to have John's ear. They will make the right statements but little will change relative to ownership interference. I am depressed.

Ned Colletti and Brady Anderson would be about my worst case scenario.

Raid the Astros, Indians and Rays front office and scouting staffs.  It doesn’t have to be hard.