Harold Baines.....Lee Smith in Hall of Fame

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

There is a group that feels the hall has been overly restrictive in reason years compared to the past.

I guess as long as you are decent and no one has accused you of steroids...

The problem that the Hall has had almost since it was built is that they'll put Harold Baines in, but omit players who arguably were 50% better.

Among retired position players there are 189 guys with higher career rWAR totals than Baines, who aren't in the Hall.  Baines was a DH most of his career and somehow got in the Hall despite leading the league in a single positive offensive category (slugging, 1984).  If Edgar Martinez is a 7 HOF candidate, Baines is maybe a 4.

Pick someone on the list ahead of Baines... Doug DeCinces, my favorite player growing up.  DeCinces was almost as good a hitter (121 OPS+ to 115), a very good third baseman, played on very good Orioles and Angels teams, higher WAR value but had a shorter career.  Baines is in, DeCinces has about the same chance of going to the Hall as weams and I do.  There's a whole list you can do this with.  Someone please make the argument Baines was better than Vada Pinson.  Or Jose Cruz. Or Will Clark.  Or Keith Hernandez.  Or Bobby Grich!  Grich led the league in more offensive categories than Baines AND was a gold glove 2B.

Lee Smith... I've long since given up trying to come up with objective criteria for HOF closers.  Eventually some committee they invented three years ago just randomly picks a guy they like and put them in.

The Hall has had many ignominious days, and this is certainly one of them.

[DrungoHazewood]

22 minutes ago, weams said:

So they got in via the Frankie Frisch method.  I eagerly await the induction of Bobby Bonilla and Scott Erickson.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

So they got in via the Frankie Frisch method.  I eagerly await the induction of Bobby Bonilla and Scott Erickson.

Yes. They did.

[weams]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

So they got in via the Frankie Frisch method.  I eagerly await the induction of Bobby Bonilla and Scott Erickson.

And Mike is now a shoo-in. If he does not get in the legal way. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, weams said:

And Mike is now a shoo-in. If he does not get in the legal way. 

As he should be.  Mussina isn't an inner-circle guy.  But he's better than an average HOF starter.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

So they got in via the Frankie Frisch method.  I eagerly await the induction of Bobby Bonilla and Scott Erickson.

Not before Doug Jones!

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

So they got in via the Frankie Frisch method.  I eagerly await the induction of Bobby Bonilla and Scott Erickson.

As a large hall guy you should be happy.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

As a large hall guy you should be happy.

I want a large and mostly consistent Hall.  What I don't like is a Hall that puts in the top 10 (unless you were teammates with someone who hit homers in the 90s), then 13, 18, 22, 32, 45, 89, 112, and 334.  Which is basically the way it is now.  

There aren't enough intangibles in Joe Morgan's Christmas stocking to make #112 worthy and #11 not.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not before Doug Jones!

He doesn't need Frankie Frisch or a committee of 1990s Orioles.  He has a mustache that can double as an industrial-grade strainer, and got 300 saves after he turned 30 with an 85 mph heater.  That's enough for me.

[bobmc]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I want a large and mostly consistent Hall.  What I don't like is a Hall that puts in the top 10 (unless you were teammates with someone who hit homers in the 90s), then 13, 18, 22, 32, 45, 89, 112, and 334.  Which is basically the way it is now.  

There aren't enough intangibles in Joe Morgan's Christmas stocking to make #112 worthy and #11 not.

Good "hearing" your voice!  Sadly, I was at a Reds ballgame this summer when they played the ex-Orioles Machado and Co.   I was crowd watching and happened to look downward and saw a much-hobbled Joe Morgan being assisted into his wheelchair as he was leaving.  It was a sad but very real look at the aging process.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, bobmc said:

Good "hearing" your voice!  Sadly, I was at a Reds ballgame this summer when they played the "Orioles".  I was crowd watching and happened to look downward and saw a much-hobbled Joe Morgan being assisted into his wheelchair as he was leaving.  It was a sad but very real look at the aging process.

That's a shame.  I don't agree with a lot of his musings on how baseball should be run, but I'll always remember him flapping his back elbow waiting for the pitch.  He was a truly great player.

[bobmc]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's a shame.  I don't agree with a lot of his musings on how baseball should be run, but I'll always remember him flapping his back elbow waiting for the pitch.  He was a truly great player.

Yeah and I just "remembered" that it was Manny and the Dodgers not the Orioles.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That's a shame.  I don't agree with a lot of his musings on how baseball should be run, but I'll always remember him flapping his back elbow waiting for the pitch.  He was a truly great player.

I miss Fire Joe Morgan.

[hoosiers]

54 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I want a large and mostly consistent Hall.  What I don't like is a Hall that puts in the top 10 (unless you were teammates with someone who hit homers in the 90s), then 13, 18, 22, 32, 45, 89, 112, and 334.  Which is basically the way it is now.  

There aren't enough intangibles in Joe Morgan's Christmas stocking to make #112 worthy and #11 not.

This is generally how I feel and what I want - consistency.

It's not really right for guys in that group to say - That guy was one tough hitter - as a peer.  That's not an appropriate criteria to get into the HOF.  

[wildbillhiccup]

Am I the only one who doesn't like the idea of a Games Committee? If they don't trust the members of the media to vote in the correct players perhaps they should change the system. I will say this. After seeing several writers share their ballots over the years I'm not sure they're any more qualified to vote than the fans are for the All-Star team members. Rene Cardenas, a former announce for the Astros, recently shared his ballot. His picks were:

Berkman
Clemens
Kent
Martinez
Oswalt
Schilling
Vizquel
Walker

Note that he appears to be ok with steroid use (see Clemens), but only for former Astros (no Bonds). Also, Lance Berkman? Seriously? And how can you possibly make an argument for Oswalt over someone like Mussina?