O’s Trade for Another Catcher

[Beef Supreme]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I would hope not considering how MLB has dealt with the Braves and Dodgers. 

Red Sox get hit too right?

Sox and Dodgers seemed to get off easy.

[SteveA]

Hypothesis 1:

    -- The Orioles ownership has placed a very significant limitation on what the Orioles can spend in the international market.   

    -- Elias is hiding this, pretending he is doing due diligence, even sent someone to Florida to look at Sanchez, and hiding behind the excuse that there isn't much talent left worth spending money on in this signing period and that it will also be difficult to get guys in the next signing period because of relationships and under the table deals and so forth, so it will at least be a few years before he is proven a liar and the ownership's true intent becomes obvious to any thinking observer

Hypothesis 2:

   -- There are no unreasonable limitations on Orioles' international spending, but the owners wouldn't want them to spend money just to spend it, but if Elias says a guy is worth a certain amount of $, he is allowed to spend that amount

   -- Elias realizes there won't be enough good players between now and the end of this period so spend all his cap space so he has dealt some of it here and there in places where he thinks he can add some small amount of value to the organization and he still has enough left over to pay what he thinks anyone who is available or likely to come available is worth.

   -- As of yet, Elias has not signed a significant player.   This may be because he has offered what  he feels a player is worth and been turned down, or he has not found a player worth making an offer to, or he knows that a player has a handshake/under the table deal with another team so he hasn't bothered, or that the negotiations for players has been extremely slow moving.   It certainly does not appear he has "lost" anyone yet, as no significant player has signed with another team recently.

 

Hypothesis #1 requires that Elias be lying, that the Angelos brothers have allowed the idea that they will spend on international players and that Elias has significant autonomy to flourish when in actuality it isn't true.   That, to me, is its biggest flaw.   However, since it is obvious to a lot of people that Elias/Hyde aren't telling the whole truth when they say that service time has nothing to do with the Hays demotion, the idea that they could lie about something else certainly is a bit more reasonable, or supportable, than it was a few days ago when we had no real evidence they had ever lied to us about anything.  Hypothesis #1 also requires we believe they actually went through the charade of sending scouts to Florida for Sanchez when we knew we weren't going to really be in on him.   That is a stretch to me.   And I also don't think that the Angelos Brothers have lied to us yet so I tend towards giving them the benefit of the doubt until they get caught in a lie.   

Those are the reasons Hypothesis #2 seems more reasonable to me, but I certainly acknowledge #1 is possible.   If Sanchez or the Mexican catcher sign for a reasonably small $ figure with someone during this pay period, it would certainly move the needle towards Hypothesis #1.   If they don't sign until next period and get a good bonus, it would move the needle towards Hypothesis #2.   We'll just have to wait and see.

[rudyrooster]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No, so they can sign the player.

The market is artificially suppressed by the sloting system.  You can "overpay" and still be paying a lot less than what similar players were valued at just a few years ago.  Do you know the Dodgers spent 31M to sign Diaz? 

If you like you can view it as the O's not getting the discount the team that build up the relationship gets.

I'm trusting that Elias is more knowledgeable than either of us when it comes to the international market.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, rudyrooster said:

I'm trusting that Elias is more knowledgeable than either of us when it comes to the international market.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Huh?

Your comment has nothing to do with what I have been saying.

At no point have I stated or even insinuated that Elias lacks knowledge of the International market.

[interloper]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

When did I say he wasn't being limited by ownership?

My belief is that international spending is being limited either by directly forbidding large signings or by not having enough funding in the overall budget to both be able to freely spend on the International market and spend money on things Elias thinks are more important.

Either scenario is on ownership.

Yeesh. I give up. Have a good night man.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Yeesh. I give up. Have a good night man.

Hold up, I would like you to show me where I said he wasn't being limited by ownership.

If I said that I'd like to be able to go back and edit it.

I thought I was being consistent in my view.

[rudyrooster]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Huh?

Your comment has nothing to do with what I have been saying.

At no point have I stated or even insinuated that Elias lacks knowledge of the International market.

Yeesh.  I give up also.  Like talking to a brick wall.  Good night all.

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, TheOtherRipken said:

DD basically destroyed all credibility as a GM when he made that Gausman trade. Elias has not done anything overtly stupid yet, but unfortunately if my past 30 years of Oriole fandom is any barometer we just need to give him some time (hopefully Elias bucks the trend, pun not intended).

Saw O’day is opening the season on the DL. Imagine having another Trumbo on the roster?

[theocean]

2 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

Not true. The signing period started July 2nd. Elias was hired November 16th. Keep your pitchforks in the shed until late summer. 

I should have been more clear with my original comment. I totally agree with what Elias is doing - but it’s kinda weird how national writers tore the O’s apart for trading international money under DD, but under Elias - they think its a wise move.

Obviously Peter Angelos kept DD from doing what he wanted. I guess it’s just kind of weird how the media narrative around Elias is he can’t do any wrong because he comes from the Astros - while DD is unfairly a scapegoat. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Saw O’day is opening the season on the DL. Imagine having another Trumbo on the roster?

I'd be down with it if they also had one of the Braves young starters.

 

(Yes I am aware that may not have been an option.)

[Luke-OH]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

 It’s amazing how little of the discussion has been about whether this new guy is any good. Dan was an idiot. He was handicapped by ownership, that is true, but  he made plenty of awful moves and non-moves all on his own

 But so what? He’s gone, and Mike has only been on the job for a few months. It’s way way too early to find fault with his process. I don’t understand or agree with some of what he’s done, but I’m perfectly willing to wait and see. Meanwhile, is this new guy any good?

I’m shocked this take is so prevalent.

The guy wasn’t media friendly and made his share of mistakes (as all GMs do, if Elias uses a data-based model for decision making, it practically guarantees that he’ll be wrong plenty) but he took a team from the depths of the dark ages to the playoffs by maximizing roster talent in ways few teams were doing at the time. He did this under the constraints of a controlling owner, a rogue Brady, and with a manager who he didn’t hire (a quality manager, but a less than ideal situation nonetheless).

[HowAboutThat]

29 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I’m shocked this take is so prevalent.

The guy wasn’t media friendly and made his share of mistakes (as all GMs do, if Elias uses a data-based model for decision making, it practically guarantees that he’ll be wrong plenty) but he took a team from the depths of the dark ages to the playoffs by maximizing roster talent in ways few teams were doing at the time. He did this under the constraints of a controlling owner, a rogue Brady, and with a manager who he didn’t hire (a quality manager, but a less than ideal situation nonetheless).

He’s gone. It’s a new day. That’s what matters. I stand by what I said but I don’t want to spend time arguing about it, because he is done and gone( and no one is clamoring for his services.)If you disagree that’s fine.

[sportsfan8703]

I think there are constraints by ownership in international spending, but we won’t find out what constraints Elias has until the new signing period opens up in June/July. 

Why would Elias want to sign players just to signs guys at this point?  Especially knowing that he does have constraints. Elias will wait and get his “guys”. 

Trading for Smith was a no brainer. We needed a MLB ready LH OF, so that Hays and Co could start in minors. 

Zollner was a handshake agreement from the Asher trade a while back. 

The intl money traded for Drew Jackson was well worth it. 

Rodriguez is a C that is in full season ball. He was originally signed for 300k. Like I said before, that is pretty much best case scenario for a 300k C. 

Unfortunanately, we have to wait and see what we do in the new signing period. 

[TheOtherRipken]

7 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Saw O’day is opening the season on the DL. Imagine having another Trumbo on the roster?

Are you comparing a relief pitcher to a roster clogging DH type? Don’t think that comparison works. I’d much rather have Gausman and O’Day than what we got in return.

[sportsfan8703]

3 minutes ago, TheOtherRipken said:

Are you comparing a relief pitcher to a roster clogging DH type? Don’t think that comparison works. I’d much rather have Gausman and O’Day than what we got in return.

No I’m comparing two players making $10 million this season. DD was able to unload one of them. If everyone in this thread is so worried about money and where it’s being spent, then you should really appreciate that DD saved the franchise $10 million. 

I see your point about roster clogging though, O’day won’t be healthy enough to clog a roster this year.