O's listening to trade offers for Givens

[atomic]

13 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I agree.

I think to think an immediate fix is impossible and unrealistic.

I expect us to be better next year, and then more better the following year.

But you cant argue with trolls.

 

How is it trolling to state that are farm system looks pretty bare.  The team wont be better next season.  

[Ohfan67]

7 minutes ago, atomic said:

How is it trolling to state that are farm system looks pretty bare.  The team wont be better next season.  

I think we all agree with this statement. 

[LTO's]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

How is it trolling to state that are farm system looks pretty bare.  The team wont be better next season.  

You're insinuating that somehow Elias and co. have done a poor job with this rebuild before they've even had a draft or a full int'l signing period. Once the draft is over they will probably have 4 top 100 prospects (Hall, Grayrod, Mountcastle and Rutschman) with some people theorizing that Adley would immediately be a top 30-40 prospect.. That's still not close to where they need to be but it's something. The theme of all your posts is that Elias hasn't magically made everything better since basically December and you're unwilling to give him the time.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I think we all agree with this statement. 

I think it's likely that the Major League team won't be significantly better for a number of years.  Which is what we suspected a year ago or more.  Timelines in things like this are always approximations, development can be faster or slower than "normal", there's no guarantee that they'll exactly follow the Astros' template or any other template.  

But when you have a 47-win baseline and a bottom 5 or 10 farm system there's no quick fix.  Even an unprecedented spending spree wouldn't guarantee a .500 record, and wouldn't do anything for the long-term sustainability of the organization.  They're taking a path of slowly building a self-sustaining process, which will hopefully lead to an organization that can compete despite the large differences in budget between the O's, Sox, and Yanks.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, LTO's said:

You're insinuating that somehow Elias and co. have done a poor job with this rebuild before they've even had a draft or a full int'l signing period. Once the draft is over they will probably have 4 top 100 prospects (Hall, Grayrod, Mountcastle and Rutschman) with some people theorizing that Adley would immediately be a top 30-40 prospect.. That's still not close to where they need to be but it's something. The theme of all your posts is that Elias hasn't magically made everything better since basically December and you're unwilling to give him the time.

You name two pitchers at low A. We haven't drafted Rutschman and you don't know if we will. But whomever we draft they will be rated highly but won't help next year.  You have Mountcastle as the one guy who will help next year and he won't move the needle.  Those pitchers won't even be ready in 2021 and they are so far away that odds are they won't develop into quality starters.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, LTO's said:

You're insinuating that somehow Elias and co. have done a poor job with this rebuild before they've even had a draft or a full int'l signing period. Once the draft is over they will probably have 4 top 100 prospects (Hall, Grayrod, Mountcastle and Rutschman) with some people theorizing that Adley would immediately be a top 30-40 prospect.. That's still not close to where they need to be but it's something. The theme of all your posts is that Elias hasn't magically made everything better since basically December and you're unwilling to give him the time.

atomic doesn't want this type of rebuild.  He wants a team that's not so far out of contention while they rebuild.  So he's going to continue to voice his displeasure with the strategy by saying it has failed because it hasn't met his goals.  Despite the fact it was never designed to meet his goals.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

You name two pitchers at low A. We haven't drafted Rutschman and you don't know if we will. But whomever we draft they will be rated highly but won't help next year.  You have Mountcastle as the one guy who will help next year and he won't move the needle.  Those pitchers won't even be ready in 2021 and they are so far away that odds are they won't develop into quality starters.

How would you have added a significant amount of nearly MLB-ready talent while building for the future and staying competitive at the Major League level, and seeing tangible results in six months?  Remember you have to stay within a small-to-mid-market budget.

[FanSince88]

Holy selling low, Batman!

[atomic]

18 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

How would you have added a significant amount of nearly MLB-ready talent while building for the future and staying competitive at the Major League level, and seeing tangible results in six months?  Remember you have to stay within a small-to-mid-market budget.

I think the trades turned out poorly last trade deadline.  I am not sure what we can do at this point.  I would rather see a few more major league quality players on the team.  Sign a few guys to contracts in the low single digit millions.  

I just think the re-build will be going on after Elias is gone even if he does the right moves with this style of rebuild.  We just have so far to go. 

[Jammer7]

Perhaps Givens is being shopped to gauge interest for July. Or maybe Elias is trying to get a package soon that includes a Comp A pick for this draft, which is something I would love to see. Increases their spending flexibility and gives them another chance to take an over slot type. 

[BRobinsonfan]

On 4/28/2019 at 9:52 AM, atomic said:

Then why trade him?  He has two more years of team control after this season.  Also if we are going to trade him soon than maybe tell Hyde to stop pitching multiple innings per game.

I'm curious, if you accept the concept that we're in rebuilding mode, then how do you "rebuild" without trading players that have potential value that other teams want?  Also, just because Given's is being dangled as trade bait doesn't mean we have to trade him if what's being offered doesn't have the potential to help us.  

[WalkWithElias]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

In this case the sky actually fell.  

This guy's got jokes. 

Checked in on this thread to see discussion of Givens. Ended up with more atomic saying the same stuff he says in every thread. 

Regarding a Givens trade: He has little trade value right now. I don't know why you'd trade him in early. Unless he drastically improves, the difference between moving him now and moving him later is marginal in what will likely be a middling prospect either way. I'd hold onto him and hope he catches fire. Still don't expect a lot in return the way teams are holding close on their prospects these last few years. 

[Redskins Rick]

58 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

atomic doesn't want this type of rebuild.  He wants a team that's not so far out of contention while they rebuild.  So he's going to continue to voice his displeasure with the strategy by saying it has failed because it hasn't met his goals.  Despite the fact it was never designed to meet his goals.

Atomic is on ignore for me, but I can pretty much predict that his bone of contention is that last year's firesell was stupid and didnt give anything in return.

Doesn't matter that it was under a different Ownership and GM org at the time, let keep living in the past.

Elias has a plan, and that involves better drafting and being in the international draft market.

Of course, that can't happen fast enough for Atomic, so until then, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Most of us knew this year was going to be hard at times to follow, but to sit back and be so vocal and upset about the results is crazy.

[BRobinsonfan]

18 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's common sense.

For 12 innings or work?  He's still allowed less hits than innings pitched. He's striking out batters at a rate of 11.3 per nine innings and his walk rate is lower than his career average.  In a small sample size of 12 innings, you really think an ERA of 4.50 means that much?

[BRobinsonfan]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

How is it trolling to state that are farm system looks pretty bare.  The team wont be better next season.  

But you can't blame that on Elias and current management.  And how else would you have the current management rebuild?