Maybe Givens is not a closer

[wildcard]

When the O's had Britton, Brach and O'Day, Givens was not a closer.  He was more of a middle relief guy.  As he has moved to the later innings his ERA has increased.

2015   1.80 ERA,   Games finished  5

2016  3.13 ERA,  Games finished  8

2017  2.75 ERA, Games finished  8

2018  3.99 ERA, Games finished 32

2019  5.64 ERA  Games finished 12 ( on a pace of 37)

This is not to say that Givens stuff is not good.  It is.   But the later he pitching in games the worst the ERA gets.

Career numbers.

5th inning    2.45 ERA

6th inning  3.19 ERA

7th inning  2.42 ERA

8th inning  3.74 ERA

9th inning  4.12 ERA

Maybe the O's will find that Kline and/or Fry would be better in the 8th and 9th.

[Can_of_corn]

Maybe one has nothing to do with the other?

[Natty]

Well right now Givens has 3 straight losses in his last 3 appearances...

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Natty said:

Well right now Givens has 3 straight losses in his last 3 appearances...

Which is why wildcard is writing about it now.  

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Which is why wildcard is writing about it now.  

That is actually  a pretty good point.   In 2018 after the traded deadline Givens finished 18 games.  His ERA was 2.89 in August and 1.84 ERA in Sept.    So that should be considered also.    But he had a 4.50 ERA this April and now has a 6.97 ERA in May.

[Frobby]

I think Givens is perfectly capable of being a closer.    Put it this way: if the Orioles are going to have a closer, he’s our best option.    Zack Britton’s not here.    

Last year, Givens was installed as closer when Britton, Brach and O’Day were traded.    He responded well, posting a 2.25 ERA the rest of the season.    

The results this year have been more uneven, but the save chances are few and far between and Hyde has used Givens in a more unconventional way, often asking him to get 4-6 outs.   Givens had a very nice stretch from April 8 to May 17 where he posted a 1.72 ERA despite pitching more than an inning in 6 appearances.    This last week, he’s had a rough patch.    That happens sometimes and it says nothing to me about whether Givens can be a closer.  

[ArtVanDelay]

29 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Maybe the O's will find that Kline and/or Fry would be better in the 8th and 9th.

Paul Fry is the definition of mediocre.  I would prefer having the best reliever in the highest leverage situation. 

[Natty]

Right now Givens' main problem is in his head. When he doesn't get a called strike, that he thinks was a strike, it frazzles him so bad he cant pitch anymore...

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, ArtVanDelay said:

Paul Fry is the definition of mediocre.  I would prefer having the best reliever in the highest leverage situation. 

But closer /=/ highest leverage.

[mdbdotcom]

We don't need a closer, so it doesn't matter. Trying to win games is important. The actual number of games we win is not. 

[MongoBoy]

16 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

We don't need a closer, so it doesn't matter. Trying to win games is important. The actual number of games we win is not. 

 They usually blow any lead they have way before a closer is needed.

[Aristotelian]

Agreed, Givens is better suited as a matchup guy. Hard no to anyone else on the roster being a better option.

[Obando]

I agree that it’s mental with Givens.  We know what he is capable of, but right now, he’s clearly in a rut and not feeling confident.  Some guys are just not mentally wired to be a closer, and that could be the case with Givens.  Closers have to be able to brush off adversity like bad umpire calls, errors, etc. and get the job done, and Givens appears to not handle adversity well, at least as a closer.  His stuff is just as good as it has always been, but when he’s not right, he becomes very wild and his control is spotty.  That’s what’s going on with him right now.  

I’m sure Elias wants Givens to be the closer so that his value is higher when it comes time to talk trade.  But for the time being, it might be better to put him in a lower-leverage role, like the 7th inning, to help him regain his confidence, and try others in the closer role in the meantime.  I don’t think his current struggles are killing his value to other teams, because the stuff is still there and he has a pretty solid track record of performance.  But in a ideal world, Givens gets on a roll as the closer and he increases his value to contending teams, who will know that Givens is capable of closing games.  He has done it before, but his experience and success as a closer is still limited, so at this point, Givens is probably viewed strictly as a setup man to contending teams.

If we want to look on the bright side, it’s still very early in the season and Givens has 2 months to get back on track and get his value to a level that will garner a good prospect package (he still has 2+ years before he becomes a FA).  At the same time, he’s helping increase our chances of getting the 1st pick in the draft next year, which is a factor that must be considered as we go through a rebuild.  So it’s truly a double-edged sword.

[webbrick2010]

30 minutes ago, Obando said:

I agree that it’s mental with Givens.  We know what he is capable of, but right now, he’s clearly in a rut and not feeling confident.  Some guys are just not mentally wired to be a closer, and that could be the case with Givens.  Closers have to be able to brush off adversity like bad umpire calls, errors, etc. and get the job done, and Givens appears to not handle adversity well, at least as a closer.  His stuff is just as good as it has always been, but when he’s not right, he becomes very wild and his control is spotty.  That’s what’s going on with him right now.  

I’m sure Elias wants Givens to be the closer so that his value is higher when it comes time to talk trade.  But for the time being, it might be better to put him in a lower-leverage role, like the 7th inning, to help him regain his confidence, and try others in the closer role in the meantime.  I don’t think his current struggles are killing his value to other teams, because the stuff is still there and he has a pretty solid track record of performance.  But in a ideal world, Givens gets on a roll as the closer and he increases his value to contending teams, who will know that Givens is capable of closing games.  He has done it before, but his experience and success as a closer is still limited, so at this point, Givens is probably viewed strictly as a setup man to contending teams.

If we want to look on the bright side, it’s still very early in the season and Givens has 2 months to get back on track and get his value to a level that will garner a good prospect package (he still has 2+ years before he becomes a FA).  At the same time, he’s helping increase our chances of getting the 1st pick in the draft next year, which is a factor that must be considered as we go through a rebuild.  So it’s truly a double-edged sword. 

LOL, Givens has close to zero trade value. Won't even get a top 15 prospect from a mediocre system.

[DirtyBird]

31 minutes ago, Obando said:

I agree that it’s mental with Givens.  We know what he is capable of, but right now, he’s clearly in a rut and not feeling confident.  Some guys are just not mentally wired to be a closer, and that could be the case with Givens.  Closers have to be able to brush off adversity like bad umpire calls, errors, etc. and get the job done, and Givens appears to not handle adversity well, at least as a closer.  His stuff is just as good as it has always been, but when he’s not right, he becomes very wild and his control is spotty.  That’s what’s going on with him right now.  

I’m sure Elias wants Givens to be the closer so that his value is higher when it comes time to talk trade.  But for the time being, it might be better to put him in a lower-leverage role, like the 7th inning, to help him regain his confidence, and try others in the closer role in the meantime.  I don’t think his current struggles are killing his value to other teams, because the stuff is still there and he has a pretty solid track record of performance.  But in a ideal world, Givens gets on a roll as the closer and he increases his value to contending teams, who will know that Givens is capable of closing games.  He has done it before, but his experience and success as a closer is still limited, so at this point, Givens is probably viewed strictly as a setup man to contending teams.

If we want to look on the bright side, it’s still very early in the season and Givens has 2 months to get back on track and get his value to a level that will garner a good prospect package (he still has 2+ years before he becomes a FA).  At the same time, he’s helping increase our chances of getting the 1st pick in the draft next year, which is a factor that must be considered as we go through a rebuild.  So it’s truly a double-edged sword.

I can't believe someone took this much time to write about Mychal Givens