I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[thezeroes]

If they mandate a floor in spending, players/agents would hold out for more $$$ if a team is below said floor with only one or two roster spots available. IMO

[mdbdotcom]

The 1pm deadline has passed.. We should know soon whether or not any team claimed Villar.

[theocean]

43 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

But I think you are missing out on the part about how this looks to fans and others in the industry. What team just releases or non-tenders it's best player who is 28-years old an coming off a 4-win season?

While I agree that this probably does not affect the timeline for the Orioles to be a contending team in the future, it does show that this organization will be cold and heartless when it comes to their bottom line. How will you be able to trust an organization that will do this? 

What makes you think Mancini won't be next? Let's fast forward and say the team is not competitive and suddenly Rutchsman is expensive and close to fee agency? Just release him, right? 

If Villar is just non-tendered or released or basically given away, I believe the team has just set an ugly precedence. Seriously, who would go pay money to watch the team next year after what they did? They basically just told their fans that they will release any player on the roster if they get too expensive, regardless of their production and enjoyment the fans get out of watching them.

I completely understand what the team is in the middle of, but just outright releasing good players over money that won't make a difference to anything but ownership's bottom line is not a a way to keep or develop fans.

I agree. If the organization is cold and heartless to its players - fans will end up feeling cold and heartless toward the organization.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

The 1pm deadline has passed.. We should know soon whether or not any team claimed Villar.

Seems pretty irrelevant to the Orioles.  What difference does it make if a team claims him today or signs him to a contract next week.   It is not like the Orioles are going to sign him any sort of deal. 

[webbrick2010]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

I like Villar, dont get me wrong.

But, it seams like more people are on the keep Villar wagon, than was on the keep Manny wagon.

LOL, he had a higher WAR than Manny last season, and for 20 million less

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, atomic said:

Seems pretty irrelevant to the Orioles.  What difference does it make if a team claims him today or signs him to a contract next week.   It is not like the Orioles are going to sign him any sort of deal. 

If there is more than 1 claim they can trade him right? 
 

I thought that was the whole reason they did not wait until the deadline to tender right?

[Frobby]

36 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

I see it more like deciding whether or not to give a pending free agent a qualifying offer. For Villar, the QO is around $10 million. Is that a good investment for the team? I don't think so, especially if no one else is willing to pay him that. Should have made the same decision with Wieters.

We made the playoffs by the skin of our teeth in 2016.    I’d say we might not have made it without Wieters, who had a ton of clutch hits that year.   I’m happy we gave him that QO.    And remember, the reason we did it was that we would have gotten draft pick compensation if he walked.    To that point, no player had ever accepted a QO.    Many were surprised when he took it.   

[webbrick2010]

2 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

10 per year for Villar, and no defense.

I think Manny did want to stay here, it was pretty obvious that the Organization/Ownership wasnt interested.

Manny is most likely a first round HOF.

Villar will never be a HOF.

Wow Redskins, please give up the HOF BS

Manny hit .259 last year, isn't in the top 5 in ML 3B

He has a really good shot at the Orioles HOF, Cooperstown not going to happen

[Luke-OH]

Just now, webbrick2010 said:

Wow Redskins, please give up the HOF BS

Manny hit .259 last year, isn't in the top 5 in ML 3B

He has a really good shot at the Orioles HOF, Cooperstown not going to happen

He’s going to have a chance but he’ll have to play well thru his mid 30s which is a tough ask for anyone.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

But I think you are missing out on the part about how this looks to fans and others in the industry. What team just releases or non-tenders it's best player who is 28-years old an coming off a 4-win season?

While I agree that this probably does not affect the timeline for the Orioles to be a contending team in the future, it does show that this organization will be cold and heartless when it comes to their bottom line. How will you be able to trust an organization that will do this? 

What makes you think Mancini won't be next? Let's fast forward and say the team is not competitive and suddenly Rutchsman is expensive and close to fee agency? Just release him, right? 

If Villar is just non-tendered or released or basically given away, I believe the team has just set an ugly precedence. Seriously, who would go pay money to watch the team next year after what they did? They basically just told their fans that they will release any player on the roster if they get too expensive, regardless of their production and enjoyment the fans get out of watching them.

I completely understand what the team is in the middle of, but just outright releasing good players over money that won't make a difference to anything but ownership's bottom line is not a a way to keep or develop fans.

Totally fair response and I definitely get it. 

I guess I kind of just don't care how cold and heartless they are about the current 25-man roster in the next few years as long as I'm seeing real progress in the places where the Orioles have been literally decades behind the rest of the game (analytics, scouting, international, technology, coaching, development, etc). Seeing that stuff built up the right way by really smart/accomplished people has done more for my morale as an O's fan than any 25-man roster move could. 

We know this team has money and will spend money. They've spent it like absolute boneheads for the most part (Davis, Cobb, Ubaldo), but they will spend when the time is right to strike. In no way does waiving Villar make me worry about a homegrown #1 pick stud like Adley, if he indeed lives up to the hype. 

Mancini won't be next this year, but he 100% will be when he's in his last year before free agency. Bundy will be and should be traded for whatever you can get. None of that has anything to do with the next wave of talent, because that wave is Elias' wave. The fans who jump off because of this kind of thing can see themselves out. They'll be back when the team starts winning with a group of young stars supplemented by smart free agency and trade pickups. 

[Sessh]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d say we might not have made it without Wieters, who had a ton of clutch hits that year.

I don't think we make it without Kim either. I'm still disappointed with how he was handled.

[Sessh]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

He’s going to have a chance but he’ll have to play well thru his mid 30s which is a tough ask for anyone.

He didn't do himself any favors going to San Diego which may make it even tougher. He had a pretty bad year last year by his standards. Didn't even OPS .800.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Sessh said:

He didn't do himself any favors going to San Diego which may make it even tougher. He had a pretty bad year last year by his standards. Didn't even OPS .800.

Playing shortstop really hurts him as he is so bad at it.  He played 35 games at Short last year.  

I mean he has a chance to make the Hall of Fame but odds point to no.  He doesn't seem to warrant at this point.  He has 3 gold gloves but the last one was in 2015.   He has 1200 hits.  Seems remote chance to get 3000 hits.   Never finished above fourth in MVP voting.  207 home runs so chance of getting to 500 homers seems like a long shot.  .279 average.   No post-season heroics.  

Could end up like Bobby Grich.  A lot of WAR but nothing that says put me in the hall of fame. 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

But I think you are missing out on the part about how this looks to fans and others in the industry. What team just releases or non-tenders it's best player who is 28-years old an coming off a 4-win season?

While I agree that this probably does not affect the timeline for the Orioles to be a contending team in the future, it does show that this organization will be cold and heartless when it comes to their bottom line. How will you be able to trust an organization that will do this? 

What makes you think Mancini won't be next? Let's fast forward and say the team is not competitive and suddenly Rutchsman is expensive and close to fee agency? Just release him, right? 

If Villar is just non-tendered or released or basically given away, I believe the team has just set an ugly precedence. Seriously, who would go pay money to watch the team next year after what they did? They basically just told their fans that they will release any player on the roster if they get too expensive, regardless of their production and enjoyment the fans get out of watching them.

I completely understand what the team is in the middle of, but just outright releasing good players over money that won't make a difference to anything but ownership's bottom line is not a a way to keep or develop fans.

"cold"

"heartless"

"trust"

"how this looks"

Those terms don't compute.   They aren't measurable or quantifiable.

We signed on for a data-driven approach, that's what we are getting.   If the math points to a move, the move will happen.

[Yardball85]

Profar traded to the Padres.  Like Villar, he's in his last year of control.  Numbers weren't as good last year, though he'll be significantly cheaper.