Roch: "I don't expect Villar back with the O's in 2020."

[interloper]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If other folks weren't wrong so often that wouldn't be an issue. 

The above is a test.  Is that a joke?  Is it cynical exaggeration?

I'm not going to emoticon for your benefit each and every time I make a joke.

Never asked for an emoticon. Better writing, maybe. Combining the joke with the actual opinion in the same post maybe.

[Philip]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

The "he wouldn't be the worst regular on any team in baseball" isn't opinion, it's extremely defensible by statistical arguments. 

Yes, they should tender him and trade him this offseason IMO. 

I understand your comment and I didn’t use the word “opinion” in a derogatory way.

However, just because a guy is worth 2 WAR or so doesn’t mean he has value to a team. They have to have a need for which he’s the best solution. He wasn’t the best solution at the trade deadline, and it’s unlikely he will be during the off-season.

I respect your knowledge, and if you think he will be tendered, I accept that. But he didn’t demonstrate any trade value last week, when he was “very available” and the new team could have had him for only the rest of his current pay, and could have had him for next year too.

So it will be interesting to see what happens.

[Luke-OH]

Just now, Philip said:

I understand your comment and I didn’t use the word “opinion” in a derogatory way.

However, just because a guy is worth 2 WAR or so doesn’t mean he has value to a team. They have to have a need for which he’s the best solution. He wasn’t the best solution at the trade deadline, and it’s unlikely he will be during the off-season.

I respect your knowledge, and if you think he will be tendered, I accept that. But he didn’t demonstrate any trade value last week, when he was “very available” and the new team could have had him for only the rest of his current pay, and could have had him for next year too.

So it will be interesting to see what happens.

To be clear, we have no idea what was offered for Villar at the deadline. 

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, interloper said:

Never asked for an emoticon. Better writing, maybe. Combining the joke with the actual opinion in the same post maybe.

I don't think my style of writing is the issue here.

[Philip]

2 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

To be clear, we have no idea what was offered for Villar at the deadline. 

Of course, I did not suggest otherwise. We only have the result, and any offer, whatever it was, was deemed too little.

It’s possible to extrapolate from that that Jonathan has value to the Os beyond this year, and that’s a reasonable conclusion.

But I do not think his value, whatever it is, is going to increase in the off-season, when there’s much less urgency, and teams have many more options. Plus, if he is tendered, that means a team that traded for him would be responsible for whatever raise he gets in arbitration, so he would be more expensive than he is now with less time remaining. I think that is unlikely.

That’s one of many storylines we will be following this off-season, during that long winter between October and March.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think my style of writing is the issue here.

Agree to disagree. 

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

One game doesn't make him a better player. His poor defense and poor OBP are two big non redeeming qualities and probably the reason why no other teams were interested in him before the trade deadline. If he was hitting 40+ HRs then maybe it's something you can tolerate, but he's not. At his best he's basically Tim Anderson who's also not a very good player. 

Assuming you are referring to Villar here, where do you get that he has a poor OBP?   He’s at .331 this year and .326 for his career.   The league average OBP hasn’t been above .326 since 2009.

As to his defense, this has been his worst year defensively by a wide margin and I have to think that’s largely due to his constant shuttling between 2B and SS.   I’ll grant you that he’s not a great defender, but he’s far from the worst I’ve seen.

[theocean]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

If other folks weren't wrong so often that wouldn't be an issue. 

The above is a test.  Is that a joke?  Is it cynical exaggeration?

I'm not going to emoticon for your benefit each and every time I make a joke.

I'm curious, what do you do that allows you to post as much as you do?

[bobmc]

3 minutes ago, theocean said:

I'm curious, what don't you do that allows you to post as much as you do?

I clarified your original post.  

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, theocean said:

I'm curious, what do you do that allows you to post as much as you do?

Why would you even begin to think that is any of your business?

[Tony-OH]

Just my two cents, I would be surprised of Villar is not tendered this offseason. The Orioles have no in house candidate ready to take over at either SS or 2B and unless Elias has a plan in place to find a better defensive SS to play next year when they won't be contending once again, then I'm betting he's back.

Remember, the Orioles don't have a ton of salary tied up next year so it's not like they can't afford a $7 million Villar. I think next season is a transition season where we start to see prospects like Mountcastle, Akin, Zimmerman and maybe McCoy, Lowther, Wells, Kremer and even possibly Diaz if he ever starts to hit like his tools suggest. I think Elias would want some talent around them. Grant it Villar is a sub par defensive shortstop but he's not awful over there.

Now, he may consider that Alberto is ok enough at 2B next year and he could non-tender Villar if he believes he can't play SS effectively enough, but he'll need to have a replacement in mind and McCoy is the closest guy and he needs to prove it in AAA and may be better suited longterm at 2B in the majors.

My guess is he'll tender Villar. 

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

He's making way too much money. There are plenty of comparable free agents who can be signed for less to a one year deal. He's also not a MLB SS. 

Where are they? Villar is the best leadoff hitter that Os have had in years ... if you can find plenty of comparable players where are they?

[bobmc]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why would you even begin to think that is any of your business?

Hmmmm - cloying humor or arrogant dismissiveness?  Uncertain w/o the emoticon 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, bobmc said:

Hmmmm - cloying humor or arrogant dismissiveness?  Uncertain w/o the emoticon 

Righteous indignation.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Of course, I did not suggest otherwise. We only have the result, and any offer, whatever it was, was deemed too little.

It’s possible to extrapolate from that that Jonathan has value to the Os beyond this year, and that’s a reasonable conclusion.

But I do not think his value, whatever it is, is going to increase in the off-season, when there’s much less urgency, and teams have many more options. Plus, if he is tendered, that means a team that traded for him would be responsible for whatever raise he gets in arbitration, so he would be more expensive than he is now with less time remaining. I think that is unlikely.

That’s one of many storylines we will be following this off-season, during that long winter between October and March.

The trade market is a bit different in the offseason because you get some teams that weren’t in the hunt at the trade deadline trying to build their roster going forward.    I don’t have any illusions that we are going to get a big haul for Villar, but I do think it’s likely we could get something that’s worth more than what we get if we non-tender him.    I guess we’ll see how it plays out.