The lineup I want to see in September

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Bat.

True we have a number of other guys playing bat but I can think of one in particular that he can replace.

I don't get the he has to learn a defensive position argument.  What is there to lose with him learning defense at the major league level in 2019?  They have had no issue with Wilkerson learning a new position in the majors.  The prior regime did it multiple times.

Wilkerson is 27 year old utility infielder who lacks upside. He is who he is.

Why is it a big deal Mountcastle has played one year of ball at AAA? It isn’t like he has been there for 3 years. He is 22. What is the harm to gain experience at AAA? 

 

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You like floating expectations?

Greiner and Hall have both played everyday SS since the move. Obvious they want a look at both at SS which they can’t do on the same team. 

Why is it some grand statement that they choose the more experience player to play a level up? If you look at OPS month by month Greiner was actually on the uptick and Hall had leveled off.  

                       April     May   June 

Hall               .908      .785     .745

Greiner           .632     .790      .832 

[interloper]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You like floating expectations?

You are picking a weird hill to die on, IMO, so I'm gonna let you go ahead and do that.

There's a lot that goes into deciding to move a guy up, only a small amount of which we are privy to. Doesn't seem like we will be meeting in the middle here, so off I go! 

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Greiner and Hall have both played everyday SS since the move. Obvious they want a look at both at SS which they can’t do on the same team. 

Why is it some grand statement that they choose the more experience player to play a level up? If you look at OPS month by month Greiner was actually on the uptick and Hall had leveled off.  

                       April     May   June 

Hall               .908      .785     .745

Greiner           .632     .790      .832 

Because they made it a grand issue when they started talking about mastering levels before promoting guys.  If they hadn't set that expectation it wouldn't be a talking point.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

You are picking a weird hill to die on, IMO, so I'm gonna let you go ahead and do that.

There's a lot that goes into deciding to move a guy up, only a small amount of which we are privy to. Doesn't seem like we will be meeting in the middle here, so off I go! 

So you are avoiding the question?

Would you like it if your employers had nebulous floating expectations that varied between employees at the same level?   Or would you like a rigid set of expectations so you know what is expected and what you have to do to advance in your field?

Would you like it if they said one thing and then went and ignored it when it suited them while at the same time holding you to a higher standard over your peers and subordinates?

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

So you are avoiding the question?

Would you like it if your employers had nebulous floating expectations that varied between employees at the same level?   Or would you like a rigid set of expectations so you know what is expected and what you have to do to advance in your field?

Would you like it if they said one thing and then went and ignored it when it suited them while at the same time holding you to a higher standard over your peers and subordinates?

We disagree on the fundamental part where I don't think this one thing makes Elias have nebulous expectations. As another example, he has said that he usually doesn't make decisions based on service time. So if Mountcastle comes up this September, that will check out. If he doesn't come up, I'm not going to say Elias was a liar - he might just have different strategies for different players. And we won't really know. But it's not politics where you're not allowed to have some gray area or change your mind. What do your coaches tell you? How does that affect a decision on a particular player. The players aren't looking at Cadyn Grenier's promotion and thinking, "but Elias said this thing once!" 

So, I'm not avoiding, I just know it's pointless to continue to debate the point with you. We disagree that Elias is not allowed to make decisions based on a huge amount of various input that may differ from a thing he said once. I hope we do agree that if this is the thing that is stuck in your craw right now, the Orioles organization is indeed improving.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

We disagree on the fundamental part where I don't think this one thing makes Elias have nebulous expectations. As another example, he has said that he usually doesn't make decisions based on service time. So if Mountcastle comes up this September, that will check out. If he doesn't come up, I'm not going to say Elias was a liar - he might just have different strategies for different players. And we won't really know. But it's not politics where you're not allowed to have some gray area or change your mind. What do your coaches tell you? How does that affect a decision on a particular player. The players aren't looking at Cadyn Grenier's promotion and thinking, "but Elias said this thing once!" 

So, I'm not avoiding, I just know it's pointless to continue to debate the point with you. We disagree that Elias is not allowed to make decisions based on a huge amount of various input that may differ from a thing he said once. I hope we do agree that if this is the thing that is stuck in your craw right now, the Orioles organization is indeed improving.

But now I'm interested in a personal level. 

You made a comment that has led me to believe that you like a more...chaotic sort of workplace than I would favor.  Is that accurate? 

[LTO's]

36 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But now I'm interested in a personal level. 

You made a comment that has led me to believe that you like a more...chaotic sort of workplace than I would favor.  Is that accurate? 

Using your example: a young employee who displays proficiency in one aspect of the job (hit tool, power) but is still working to be proficient in other areas (defense, plate approach) should not expect a promotion. If it happens, great. but he hasn't even played a full year of professional ball at the position he will most likely be at in the majors. There's more to the game than .OPSing .870 with a juiced ball in AAA. And i say this as a huge Mountcastle believer

[Ruzious]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think more time at AAA is going to help?

Do you think a lightbulb went off in the last week or so because he had enough AAA reps?

I'm of the mindset that you need to be challenged to have substantial improvement.

I'm a big believer in that last sentence.  I think more talented and more motivated employees get quite frustrated when they're not given opportunities.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Using your example: a young employee who displays proficiency in one aspect of the job (hit tool, power) but is still working to be proficient in other areas (defense, plate approach) should not expect a promotion. If it happens, great. but he hasn't even played a full year of professional ball at the position he will most likely be at in the majors. There's more to the game than .OPSing .870 with a juiced ball in AAA. And i say this as a huge Mountcastle believer

I'm not tracking.

I'm fine with set standards, as long as they are consistent.  Citing set standards in regard to one employee while ignoring them for another employee is not something I am in favor of.

 

[Redskins Rick]

51 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not tracking.

I'm fine with set standards, as long as they are consistent.  Citing set standards in regard to one employee while ignoring them for another employee is not something I am in favor of.

 

Cherry picking results, already provides an incorrect analysis.

 

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not tracking.

I'm fine with set standards, as long as they are consistent.  Citing set standards in regard to one employee while ignoring them for another employee is not something I am in favor of.

 

I don’t think you can equate athletes with other employees or baseball minor league systems with other businesses.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I'm a big believer in that last sentence.  I think more talented and more motivated employees get quite frustrated when they're not given opportunities.

Ryan Mountcastle is going to be given plenty of opportunities.  Maybe not this very instant, but they'll come.  If he's frustrated because his call up might be in September instead of August I guess that's understandable, but also a little immature.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not tracking.

I'm fine with set standards, as long as they are consistent.  Citing set standards in regard to one employee while ignoring them for another employee is not something I am in favor of.

 

So what are the inconsistent standards that the Orioles organization is applying to their promotion of young talent?  Did they promise that after X games of Y OPS/K rate/ERA/HR rate that they'd move to the next level in no longer than two weeks?  

It's far more likely that they tell everyone they'll be promoted when the coaching staff and management believes that they're ready and the opportunities at the next level are going to be there for them to fill a role.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

So what are the inconsistent standards that the Orioles organization is applying to their promotion of young talent?  Did they promise that after X games of Y OPS/K rate/ERA/HR rate that they'd move to the next level in no longer than two weeks?  

It's far more likely that they tell everyone they'll be promoted when the coaching staff and management believes that they're ready and the opportunities at the next level are going to be there for them to fill a role.

The obvious example is the one I used earlier.  They claim you need to master your level and then they promote Grenier who is well on his way to becoming a first round bust.  On the other hand you have a player like Mountcastle who wins his league's MVP and hasn't been called up.

I don't have an issue with them promoting folks like Grenier, I have an issue with saying things like you have to master your level and then promoting Grenier.  It's inconsistent messaging.