Nostalgia on Chris Ray

[OFFNY]

1 hour ago, Barnaby Graves said:

 

I neglected to mention Ray's involvement in the Mother's Day Massacre (with an assist from Danys Baez.)

 

 

 

1 hour ago, weams said:

 

I was being kind, and chose not to post exactly that. 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, Barnaby Graves said:

 

We are the sum of our positives and negatives, my friend.

It wasn't his fault anyway, he was in the bullpen on his fifth Bloody Mary thinking that it was a vacation day when Sam Perlozzo said, "What in the wild world o' sports is going on here? I can't allow Jeremy Guthrie to toss a shutout in under 100 pitches." We found a lot of creative ways to lose.

 

o

 

This sentiment/point is somewhat reminiscent of the whole situation with the late Bill Buckner and Game 6 of the 1986 World Series ........ Buckner (like Chris Ray 21 years later), should have been celebrating the win with his teammates long before the final nail in the coffin was hammered in.

 

Historically, the infamous Bill Buckner play is one of the most overblown and misinterpreted issues of all-time ........ to this day, there are people who still believe that the Red Sox were winning the game when Buckner made that error, and that the Mets scored 2 runs on said play.

 

The reality is that the Red Sox had already blown a seemingly insurmountable lead (2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base) in such a horrific fashion ........ 3 consecutive singles ceded by their best reliever (Calvin Schiraldi), and then the wild pitch by their 2nd-best reliever (Bob Stanley) WHICH GAVE THE METS THE TYING RUN, subsequently taking all of the pressure off of them. Even if Dave Stapleton were on the field and had made that play, it would not have saved the game for the Red Sox ........ THE GAME WAS ALREADY TIED, and the Red Sox, at that point, had emotionally just had their lungs ripped out.

Would the Red Sox still have had a chance to win that game had Stapleton been on the field, made the play, and the game went to the 11th inning ??? Technically, yes. But if I were a bookie laying odds on that game at that precise moment (right after Stapleton made the play and extended the game into an 11th inning), I would be laying the odds heavily in favor of the Mets.

 

Buckner's error (and/or McNamara's failure to have inserted Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement for Buckner) was just the final nail in the coffin of what was a disastrous collapse by the Red Sox as a team overall in that game.

 

o

[Barnaby Graves]

2 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

 

 

o

 

This sentiment/point is somewhat reminiscent of the whole situation with the late Bill Buckner and Game 6 of the 1986 World Series ........ Buckner (like Chris Ray 21 years later), should have been celebrating the win with his teammates long before the final nail in the coffin was hammered in.

 

Historically, the infamous Bill Buckner play is one of the most overblown and misinterpreted issues of all-time ........ to this day, there are people who still believe that the Red Sox were winning the game when Buckner made that error, and that the Mets scored 2 runs on said play.

 

The reality is that the Red Sox had already blown a seemingly insurmountable lead (2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base) in such a horrific fashion ........ 3 consecutive singles ceded by their best reliever (Calvin Schiraldi), and then the wild pitch by their 2nd-best reliever (Bob Stanley) WHICH GAVE THE METS THE TYING RUN, subsequently taking all of the pressure off of them. Even if Dave Stapleton were on the field and had made that play, it would not have saved the game for the Red Sox ........ THE GAME WAS ALREADY TIED, and the Red Sox, at that point, had emotionally just had their lungs ripped out.

Would the Red Sox still have had a chance to win that game had Stapleton been on the field, made the play, and the game went to the 11th inning ??? Technically, yes. But if I were a bookie laying odds on that game at that precise moment (right after Stapleton made the play and extended the game into an 11th inning), I would be laying the odds heavily in favor of the Mets.

Buckner's error (and/or McNamara's failure to have inserted Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement for Buckner) was just the final nail in the coffin of what was a disastrous collapse by the Red Sox as a team overall in that game.

 

o

Great post and you're right, very comparable situation.  Ray's less innocent in that, he's a pitcher, he should've been expected to pull that off.  Or, pulling that off was at least in the job description.  Buckner was like a fish out of water.

[sevastras]

1 hour ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

 

 

o

 

This sentiment/point is somewhat reminiscent of the whole situation with the late Bill Buckner and Game 6 of the 1986 World Series ........ Buckner (like Chris Ray 21 years later), should have been celebrating the win with his teammates long before the final nail in the coffin was hammered in.

 

Historically, the infamous Bill Buckner play is one of the most overblown and misinterpreted issues of all-time ........ to this day, there are people who still believe that the Red Sox were winning the game when Buckner made that error, and that the Mets scored 2 runs on said play.

 

The reality is that the Red Sox had already blown a seemingly insurmountable lead (2 outs, a 2-run lead, and nobody on base) in such a horrific fashion ........ 3 consecutive singles ceded by their best reliever (Calvin Schiraldi), and then the wild pitch by their 2nd-best reliever (Bob Stanley) WHICH GAVE THE METS THE TYING RUN, subsequently taking all of the pressure off of them. Even if Dave Stapleton were on the field and had made that play, it would not have saved the game for the Red Sox ........ THE GAME WAS ALREADY TIED, and the Red Sox, at that point, had emotionally just had their lungs ripped out.

Would the Red Sox still have had a chance to win that game had Stapleton been on the field, made the play, and the game went to the 11th inning ??? Technically, yes. But if I were a bookie laying odds on that game at that precise moment (right after Stapleton made the play and extended the game into an 11th inning), I would be laying the odds heavily in favor of the Mets.

 

Buckner's error (and/or McNamara's failure to have inserted Dave Stapleton as a defensive replacement for Buckner) was just the final nail in the coffin of what was a disastrous collapse by the Red Sox as a team overall in that game.

 

o

But that is no where near as fun as blaming it all on one guy and one botched play, and we are talking Red Sox fans.  To be fair though, most people have just seen the ball go throw his legs for the past 30 years and blame him with no back story because that is all they see on tv.

****The Buckners actually live 10 minutes from me, though I have never met them and his wife Jody has spent the last 30 years protecting him from the media because of this single play before he passed on Memorial Day this year at 69 due to dementia****

[Enjoy Terror]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I liked him. 

I mean, I’m sure he’s a nice person but his 6.44 ERA (third worst for qualified relievers in the entire sport), and -0.9 fWAR were horrid. Every time I flipped on the TV Baez was in the middle of giving away the game.

[Can_of_corn]

23 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I mean, I’m sure he’s a nice person but his 6.44 ERA (third worst for qualified relievers in the entire sport), and -0.9 fWAR were horrid. Every time I flipped on the TV Baez was in the middle of giving away the game.

I tried to get the nickname "Butane" to stick.

His stuff was inflammable when he was with the O's, a tiny little spark and he'd blow up.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Barnaby Graves said:

I neglected to mention Ray's involvement in the Mother's Day Massacre (with an assist from Danys Baez).

In the annals of horrible blown losses, those two games might be one-two in my mind (with the Mothers’ Day game being worse).   Another one that sticks out in my mind is BJ Ryan coughing up a walk-off to David Ortiz on June 2, 2005, after the O’s had taken a 4-3 lead in the top of the 9th.    Walk-off blown saves vs. NY or Boston are as bad as it gets!

[OFFNY]

51 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

In the annals of horrible blown losses, those two games might be one-two in my mind (with the Mothers’ Day game being worse.) Another one that sticks out in my mind is BJ Ryan coughing up a walk-off to David Ortiz on June 2nd of 2005, after the Orioles had taken a 4-3 lead in the top of the 9th. Walk-off, blown saves vs. the Yankee of the Red Sox are as bad as it gets !!!

 

o

 

 

In less than 24 hours, Oriole fans went from Heaven to Hell in 2 consecutive games against the Red Sox in 2009.

In the first game the Orioles were losing by a score of 10-1, and came back to win by a score of 11-10. The best part of that game was when the Red Sox laughingly walked off of the field when there were only 2 outs in the bottom of the 6th inning ........ they had a huge lead at the time (9-1), and they were able to laugh at themselves for their blunder (but they were certainly not laughing at the end of the game.)

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL200906300.shtml 

 

 

The very next day, Brad Bergesen threw 8 innings of 1-run ball and left the game with a 5-1 lead ........ but the Orioles returned the previous day's favor, and allowed the Red Sox to score 4 runs in the top of the 9th inning to tie the game. The Bostonians eventually won it in the 12th.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BAL/BAL200907010.shtml

 

o

[Ohfan67]

6 hours ago, weams said:

I was being kind and chose not to post exactly that. 

That game still ticks me off!

[Moose Milligan]

@OFFNY I was talking about Game 6 '86 with a buddy recently.  We both commented on that the game was already tied and how people seem to overlook that.

Also wildly overlooked in that inning is the passed ball/wild pitch that allowed Mitchell to score the tying run.  Bob Stanley and Rich Gedman should have been buying Buckner beers (say that 10 times fast) for years after that.  

But what's never mentioned is that even if Buckner cleanly fields that ball there's no guarantee that he makes an out.  If you look at the replay, Stanley breaks towards first to cover but when the camera pans towards Buckner for the famous moment, he's not anywhere close.  And there's also no guarantee that Buckner beats the speedy Mookie Wilson to the bag, too.  I've always felt that there's a very good chance that Wilson either beats Stanley to first or beats Buckner to first if Stanley doesn't cover.  

Anyway...I liked Chris Ray.  I liked the wild, violent delivery.  It was a bummer he didn't last long.

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

@OFFNY I was talking about Game 6 '86 with a buddy recently.  We both commented on that the game was already tied and how people seem to overlook that.

Also wildly overlooked in that inning is the passed ball/wild pitch that allowed Mitchell to score the tying run.  Bob Stanley and Rich Gedman should have been buying Buckner beers (say that 10 times fast) for years after that.  

But what's never mentioned is that even if Buckner cleanly fields that ball there's no guarantee that he makes an out.  If you look at the replay, Stanley breaks towards first to cover but when the camera pans towards Buckner for the famous moment, he's not anywhere close.  And there's also no guarantee that Buckner beats the speedy Mookie Wilson to the bag, too.  I've always felt that there's a very good chance that Wilson either beats Stanley to first or beats Buckner to first if Stanley doesn't cover.  

Anyway...I liked Chris Ray.  I liked the wild, violent delivery.  It was a bummer he didn't last long.

 

You are 100% and don't forget about Calvin Schiraldi who melted down in the tenth inning as well. To be fair Schiraldi might have been getting tired as he was starting his third inning of pitching in that tenth inning. Except he was radioactive that whole series posting a 13.50 ERA.

And Alex Gonzalez should be sending a portion of his pension check to Steve Bartman. He booted a surefire double play ball that would have prevented that 8 run rally from the Marlins in game 6 of the 2003 NLCS. And no one ever mentions Gonzalez's error. Luckily for Bartman the Cubs have no won the series even though he was never to blame in the first place. 

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

You are 100% and don't forget about Calvin Schiraldi who melted down in the tenth inning as well. To be fair Schiraldi might have been getting tired as he was starting his third inning of pitching in that tenth inning. Except he was radioactive that whole series posting a 13.50 ERA.

And Alex Gonzalez should be sending a portion of his pension check to Steve Bartman. He booted a surefire double play ball that would have prevented that 8 run rally from the Marlins in game 6 of the 2003 NLCS. And no one ever mentions Gonzalez's error. Luckily for Bartman the Cubs have no won the series even though he was never to blame in the first place. 

Yep, we talked about Bartman, too.  Cubs made every overture to bring that guy back and apologize, he's refused every time.  Good for him.  That inning was WAY out of hand when that went down.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yep, we talked about Bartman, too.  Cubs made every overture to bring that guy back and apologize, he's refused every time.  Good for him.  That inning was WAY out of hand when that went down.  

If that inning ever happened to the Orioles in the playoffs, I probably would have ended up shooting heroin into my veins. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

If that inning ever happened to the Orioles in the playoffs, I probably would have ended up shooting heroin into my veins. 

So a typical Friday night?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

So a typical Friday night?

[DrungoHazewood]

20 hours ago, Barnaby Graves said:

I neglected to mention Ray's involvement in the Mother's Day Massacre (with an assist from Danys Baez).

It's unfortunate to remember someone for their worst moments, but when someone mentions Chris Ray my mind flashes to the MDM before they finish "Ray".  That was in the era when my kids were just being born and I clung to the single guy notion of trying to watch almost every game.  After the MDM I didn't turn on the O's for probably two weeks.