What to do at SS?

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, OrioleDog said:

Can we hear Cal on the Izturis/Brooks thing please?  The baseball card (I lived this mis-comprehension of baseball value as a kid) is ooooh, HR and RBI from a shortstop, but the essence of Cal's greatness is more Ozzie Smith than Hank Aaron.

Own question answer - Cal got 78 of 96 from his oWAR to Brooks's 48 of 78.

Defensive WAR really where Orioles shine in all MLB history.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

What do you have for $200?

I think everyone but Robertson is likely no more than $1 million per. Guzman likely would play for the minimum. My guess is that Peterson and Mejia would play for close to that if they were guaranteed the starting SS role to start the season. Robertson would be my get as he has the most upside and if they hit on him he can be dealt for other parts later. Elias' said they prefer that approach in his morning article. If you can get him on a 2 year and perhaps an option in the 2million per range its a great buy.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

If you are really good, a spot will be found for you.  Or when he was in the minors, he would have been a sought after guy and teams would have traded for him.  
 

 

Not really.  The Rockies decided he was good enough to a backup player.   They bounded him from AAA to the majors for three years.  Age 24, 25 and 26.  Then he is no longer a prospect.  They DFA him and the O's pick up as a utility player.  But because of injuries and non performance  of other players he gets to play every day.  And hits.  791 OPS playing almost everyday somewhere.

So what I think has happened is that he has proven over 3 years with the Rockies  that if he does not  play close  to everyday he will not hit.  He is not a good part time player that only plays three days a week.  Or sits for a week and then is expected to hit.   I  think if the O's think they can use him as a part time playing 3 days a week he will fail to hit.

But if they can use him everyday somewhere,  at one position or several positions he has a decent chance of hitting.  Is that possible?   I don't know.

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I think everyone but Robertson is likely no more than $1 million per. Guzman likely would play for the minimum. My guess is that Peterson and Mejia would play for close to that if they were guaranteed the starting SS role to start the season. Robertson would be my get as he has the most upside and if they hit on him he can be dealt for other parts later. Elias' said they prefer that approach in his morning article. If you can get him on a 2 year and perhaps an option in the 2million per range its a great buy.

With 500 innings at short, Robertson fields in the .940's

I think all of the options currently on the team would be better than that.

Maybe as a util guy or at 3B.. but we'd be better off with Sanchez I think

[Just Regular]

The Fangraphs trade article - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jose-iglesias-is-now-an-angel/

Comment 1 earns a full paste:

sadtrombone

 

 

On January 7, 2021, Freddy Galvis signs a one-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles. The contract is for a nominal sum and a club option for 2022 at the same salary. A guaranteed contract and an inside chance to win the starting shortstop job is the lure; Galvis responds with a career best BABIP. Perry Minasian attempts to retain their defensive wizard at shortstop but are caught between his demands for compensation and Arte Moreno’s insistence that free agents should get a minimum of $30M a year or the league minimum, with nothing in between. The Orioles trade Galvis to the Angels for a teenager who hasn’t made it to the US yet and Adam Seminaris, the Angels’ 5th round draft pick in 2020.

On January 7, 2022, Alcides Escobar–looking for a chance to break back into the major leagues–signs a one-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, OrioleDog said:

The Fangraphs trade article - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jose-iglesias-is-now-an-angel/

Comment 1 earns a full paste:

sadtrombone

 

 

On January 7, 2021, Freddy Galvis signs a one-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles. The contract is for a nominal sum and a club option for 2022 at the same salary. A guaranteed contract and an inside chance to win the starting shortstop job is the lure; Galvis responds with a career best BABIP. Perry Minasian attempts to retain their defensive wizard at shortstop but are caught between his demands for compensation and Arte Moreno’s insistence that free agents should get a minimum of $30M a year or the league minimum, with nothing in between. The Orioles trade Galvis to the Angels for a teenager who hasn’t made it to the US yet and Adam Seminaris, the Angels’ 5th round draft pick in 2020.

On January 7, 2022, Alcides Escobar–looking for a chance to break back into the major leagues–signs a one-year contract with the Baltimore Orioles.

Funny... but kinda flattering to Elias at the same time

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

With 500 innings at short, Robertson fields in the .940's

I think all of the options currently on the team would be better than that.

Maybe as a util guy or at 3B.. but we'd be better off with Sanchez I think

I mentioned I would pick him up for the future trade value reason ...Play him at 3B or 2B. Any of the other 3 will be cheap enough .... So sign both ...DFA Ruiz and Sanchez if his contract is not guaranteed. Hopefully the language said he has to make the team

[owknows]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

I mentioned I would pick him up for the future trade value reason ...Play him at 3B or 2B. Any of the other 3 will be cheap enough .... So sign both ...DFA Ruiz and Sanchez if his contract is not guaranteed. Hopefully the language said he has to make the team

I like the idea of flipping him.. would DFA Ruiz too. 

Would probably keep Sanchez though, as it still doesn't address SS

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Not really.  The Rockies decided he was good enough to a backup player.   They bounded him from AAA to the majors for three years.  Age 24, 25 and 26.  Then he is no longer a prospect.  They DFA him and the O's pick up as a utility player.  But because of injuries and non performance  of other players he gets to play every day.  And hits.  791 OPS playing almost everyday somewhere.

So what I think has happened is that he has proven over 3 years with the Rockies  that if he does not  play close  to everyday he will not hit.  He is not a good part time player that only plays three days a week.  Or sits for a week and then is expected to hit.   I  think if the O's think they can use him as a part time playing 3 days a week he will fail to hit.

But if they can use him everyday somewhere,  at one position or several positions he has a decent chance of hitting.  Is that possible?   I don't know.

I think you are trying to find reasons why your guy can succeed every day.  
 

Thats all well and good but it’s just not realistic.  Now, he wouldn’t be the first player to go from nothing to late bloomer  and become an asset.  So, in that sense, who knows?  But, much like the 98% of the players before him with the profile he has by age 28, I’m guessing he is what he is at this point and just isn’t anything more than a spare part role player who can provide you a spark from time to time when he’s hot.  Nothing wrong with that.  It has value.   

[owknows]

23 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Not really.  The Rockies decided he was good enough to a backup player.   They bounded him from AAA to the majors for three years.  Age 24, 25 and 26.  Then he is no longer a prospect.  They DFA him and the O's pick up as a utility player.  But because of injuries and non performance  of other players he gets to play every day.  And hits.  791 OPS playing almost everyday somewhere.

So what I think has happened is that he has proven over 3 years with the Rockies  that if he does not  play close  to everyday he will not hit.  He is not a good part time player that only plays three days a week.  Or sits for a week and then is expected to hit.   I  think if the O's think they can use him as a part time playing 3 days a week he will fail to hit.

But if they can use him everyday somewhere,  at one position or several positions he has a decent chance of hitting.  Is that possible?   I don't know.

Everybody knows there's an imaginary line that separates people that can play every day, from people who must not play every day under any circumstances. People who must not play every day who try to play every day will spontaneously combust in a matter-anti-matter catastrophe. It's just not realistic.

Edited December 3, 2020 by owknows

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

Own question answer - Cal got 78 of 96 from his oWAR to Brooks's 48 of 78.

Defensive WAR really where Orioles shine in all MLB history.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

To be clear, WAR does not equal oWAR + dWAR.  Positional adjustment is included in both oWAR and dWAR and is double counted if you add them.   

Brooks: 47.7 oWAR, 39.1 dWAR, 
78.4 rWAR..

Cal: 78.1 oWAR, 35.7 dWAR, 95.9 rWAR.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

Kudos!    Can we hear Cal on the Izturis/Brooks thing please?  The baseball card (I lived this mis-comprehension of baseball value as a kid) is ooooh, HR and RBI from a shortstop, but the essence of Cal's greatness is more Ozzie Smith than Hank Aaron.

On the machinations of the 30 MLB SS for '21 by the way, I hope Perry Minasian got his in-person (or FaceTime at least) How Do You Do's with Trout done before this - I imagine this wouldn't be his favorite Supporting Cast for my Age 29 season opening move.

If Cal had been an average SS he'd have been a 78-win player instead of 96.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Link or it didn't happen!

Here's one example.

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m ok with him doing that too but in a year where you are still (wrongfully) saying wins don’t matter, why not?  See if he has any long term upside.  We know the other alternatives don’t.

I think the "why not?" answer is because Bannon might actually be really inferior to an ML player. 

They protected him, so I'm guessing that's not the case, but his MiL production has been spotty at best. I know Luke was kind of a fan, so he has that going for him, but the other things I have to go on (Tony's rankings, stats, my own brief eye test, the fact he was protected) don't fully answer the question of whether he's even a good AAAA type of up and down guy. 

Anyway, I'm rambling. I could definitely imagine that they'd want him to display some long term upside from AAA instead of from the ML roster, even if the alternative is Valaika or the other dudes we're talking about rolling out there right now.

[Aristotelian]

Who is this year's Igelsias? Would Semien enjoy hitting in Camden Yards?