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John Means 2021

Il BuonO

By Il BuonO
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OsFanSinceThe80s Hangout Grand Counsel

OsFanSinceThe80s

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, jdwilde1 said:

The thing I always remember about the McGee trade is that it resulted in Eddie Murray leading the Majors in batting average but not winning a batting title.  Murray batted .330 for the Dodgers.  Meanwhile, McGee won his second NL batting title, hitting .335 for the Cardinals, but only hit .324 for the season when factoring in his time in Oakland.  George Brett won the AL batting crown at .329, which made him the only player to win batting titles in three different decades.

And if there was ever a player this exact scenario would happen to it’s Eddie. Highest batting average in MLB, but not recognized as the batting champion in either league. 

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vab
vab

By the way, don't know if anybody mentioned it but did that last out remind anybody of the last out in the '83 World Series?

TommyPickles
TommyPickles

Baseball Reference just updated the stats to reflect yesterday's games. Enjoy: The Case for John Means' 2021 AL Cy Young Award: WAR for pitchers- 2.3 (1st) WHIP- 0.674 (1st) ERA- 1

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

How could any player that Elias has traded be part of the future core?

jabba72 Veteran All-Star

jabba72

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's finally get a great starting pitcher and everybody wants to trade him.  The O's don't need to trade Means, they need another starter or 2 like him. 

We dont know what teams are offering. Maybe someone will step up with an outrageous package. If not, then hold onto him. 

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OriolesMagic83 Hangout Grand Counsel

OriolesMagic83

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6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

What makes you think that?

I don't think they are going to extend him and that he's going to be expensive by the time they hopefully will be competitive. 

Dumbest thing they can do is to keep him and let him walk for nothing.

 

Oh wait... I understand now why you don't think they will trade him.

Point taken.

Its the Oriole Way!

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Just Regular Hangout Grand Counsel

Just Regular

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Posted

FWIW Eno Sarris' podcast Friday had Means in its rundown reviewing him as a trade candidate with he and the co-host guessing 15% and 40% on his trade chances this year.   He's an MLB generalist I think is pretty good, and the topic of building block Means wasn't heavily considered.

Lance McCullers is an approximately as good pitcher who sold some years recently - five at $17M/each, which to me felt a nice get for the player's Age 28-32 seasons.   He's making 6.5 in his final Arb year after being sidelined a good chunk of the Arb window without performances to pump up Arb earnings.   He earned 2.5, 4 and 4 the last three years.

Means' first FA year 2024 is his Age 32 season, so would you want to buy it for 1/17 from here?   He is last year minimum wage and Arb 2022-2024 where maybe it goes 4/8/12 if he continues pitching well.   Overall maybe 4/40 for one extra year, or 5/55 if Elias really loves as a centerpiece?

B-Ref doesn't have his 11th round bonus, but 150K was typical for the ones they did have.  I suppose he's 28 with "only" ~$2M in career earnings where a $5M signing bonus this month or next might still represent a significant carrot.   May 26 was ye olde Adam Jones extension time nine years back.

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OriolesMagic83 Hangout Grand Counsel

OriolesMagic83

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If the O's trade Means, might as well push the rebuild back a year or two.  Maybe put Mullins or even Hays on the block.  Maybe 2024 becomes our year to be competitive.  Anyone else tired of rebuilding.  I thought the goal of a MLB team was to win a World Series, not to have the best farm team. 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

If the O's trade Means, might as well push the rebuild back a year or two.  Maybe put Mullins or even Hays on the block.  Maybe 2024 becomes our year to be competitive.  Anyone else tired of rebuilding.  I thought the goal of a MLB team was to win a World Series, not to have the best farm team. 

I do not think winning the World Series is the primary goal of all, or even most, owners.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

 

If the Orioles trade Means, they might as well push the rebuild back a year or two. Maybe put Mullins or even Hays are on the block. Maybe 2024 becomes our year to be competitive. Is anyone else besides myself tired of rebuilding ??? I thought that the goal of a MLB team was to win a World Series, not to have the best farm team. 

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

I do not think that winning the World Series is the primary goal of all, or even most, owners.

 

o

 

Good scrutinization. A "goal" and a "dream" are not necessarily mutually inclusive of one another ...... and for the majority of MLB teams which are not cash cows (all of the mid-market and small-market teams), the best that they can realistically aim for is to build a perennial contender that may or may not win a Pennant or a World Series in the process.

 

o

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Posted
3 hours ago, OrioleDog said:

FWIW Eno Sarris' podcast Friday had Means in its rundown reviewing him as a trade candidate with he and the co-host guessing 15% and 40% on his trade chances this year.   He's an MLB generalist I think is pretty good, and the topic of building block Means wasn't heavily considered.

Lance McCullers is an approximately as good pitcher who sold some years recently - five at $17M/each, which to me felt a nice get for the player's Age 28-32 seasons.   He's making 6.5 in his final Arb year after being sidelined a good chunk of the Arb window without performances to pump up Arb earnings.   He earned 2.5, 4 and 4 the last three years.

Means' first FA year 2024 is his Age 32 season, so would you want to buy it for 1/17 from here?   He is last year minimum wage and Arb 2022-2024 where maybe it goes 4/8/12 if he continues pitching well.   Overall maybe 4/40 for one extra year, or 5/55 if Elias really loves as a centerpiece?

B-Ref doesn't have his 11th round bonus, but 150K was typical for the ones they did have.  I suppose he's 28 with "only" ~$2M in career earnings where a $5M signing bonus this month or next might still represent a significant carrot.   May 26 was ye olde Adam Jones extension time nine years back.

Means first FA year is 2025 it he's Age 32 season.

Probably Means peak value is July 2023  at age 30 when he has two pennant races to go before FA.   If they wait until the 2023/24 off season to trade him he will have lost some of his trade value.   And the O's certainly don't want him to walk after the 2024 season and get nothing for him.  So rather than trade him in July 2023 I would try to extend him this coming off season.  I would rather do 4 years plus an option year but that is up for negotiations.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Just now, wildcard said:

Means first FA year is 2025 it he's Age 32 season.

Probably Means peak value is July 2023  at age 30 when he has two pennant races to go before FA.   If they wait until the 2023/24 off season to trade him he will have lost some of his trade value.   And the O's certainly don't want him to walk after the 2024 season and get nothing for him.  So rather than trade him in July 2023 I would try to extend him this coming off season.  I would rather do 4 years plus an option year but that is up for negotiations.

Why would you say his peak value is in July 2023?

 

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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o

 

Means will be aiming to lead his Orioles to another series win ......

 

 

SEATTLE MARINERS  )))))) (May 5th) 

Mitchell Haniger - RF

Tyler France - DH

Kyle Seager - 3B

Kyle Lewis - CF

Thomas James "T.J."  Murphy, Jr. - C

Evan White - 1B

Dylan Moore - 2B

Sam Haggerty - LF

John Paul "J.P." Crawford - SS

菊池 雄星 - LHP )) (1-1, 4.40 ERA)

 

 https://www.baseballpress.com/Lineups

 

o

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