The defense thread 2021

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

Well last year Stewart closed his glove prematurely and had the ball bounce off on a sky high pop up to right field. He is perhaps the worst OF'er I have ever watched on a ML field. Exactly what will it take for him to be released?? At the very least he should never never never be in the field.

Released seems a little strong at this point?

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Since it hasn't been mentioned in the thread, and this is an ongoing thread about defense that may be read later when people don't remember the details of the game, I just want to point out that there was an hour rain delay prior to Stewart slipping and falling.

Whether it was an equipment issue where he should have had longer spikes or a field issue where the drainage was particularly poor in that area is unclear, but I just wanted to post this so people aren't looking back on this thread two months from now misremembering the time that Stewart randomly fell down while trying to field a flyball.

Missing the cutoff man was bad, but it is pretty embarrassing to slip and fall while trying to catch a fly ball, I kinda understand him being flustered and messing up immediately after!

Yep..that’s why the throw itself was the worst part.

He has to be smarter on the play with equipment or whatever but slipping after a rain delay isn’t some crazy, unheard of thing.  It’s something that I don’t think anyone else did though, so it looks bad but it’s not as horrible as people are making it out to be.

But he can’t make that throw.  He has to be smarter.  I think he probably panicked but being composed and smart is all part of playing good defense.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Camden_yardbird said:

Released seems a little strong at this point?

Consider the source

[webbrick2010]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Consider the source

Curious Sports Guy, when would you release him?

or do you think he will be on the 2022 roster?

and if not, all you are saying is that he is allowed the remainder of this season since we aren't trying to win?

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Curious Sports Guy, when would you release him?

or do you think he will be on the 2022 roster?

and if not, all you are saying is that he is allowed the remainder of this season since we aren't trying to win?

Why would I release him?  It’s a dumb thought to just release him.

He has good power and very good on base skills.  His wRC+ this year is 103, so he is slightly above average and he hasn’t even gotten hot or anything yet.

He has a place on this team..that place should be DH but with the roster the way it is, he has to play in the field at times.  That’s just how it goes.  Hopefully some of that gets alleviated and he can just concentrate on hitting but while he is cheap, I’m good with a 330-360 OBP and a slugging potential in the 450-550 range even if he isn’t bringing much else to the table but that.

You choose to focus on what he can’t do rather than what he can do.  That’s a poor way of looking at things.

[Just Regular]

The other thing about the slip is it was just a pitch or two after Severino had a trademark "just plain missed" a pitch to let runners move up after the leadoff single on a bad curve and HBP to fall into a jam fast.

Kremer composed himself respectably after those escapades, Adley can't get here soon enough.   I got entering the year trying to showcase Severino in case he happened to be the 22nd best catcher instead of the 32nd or worse, but I think we can see from here even a C- prospect is a long shot.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

The other thing about the slip is it was just a pitch or two after Severino had a trademark "just plain missed" a pitch to let runners move up after the leadoff single on a bad curve and HBP to fall into a jam fast.

Kremer composed himself respectably after those escapades, Adley can't get here soon enough.   I got entering the year trying to showcase Severino in case he happened to be the 22nd best catcher instead of the 32nd or worse, but I think we can see from here even a C- prospect is a long shot.

Poor defense, 622 OPS and a -.3 WAR.

Whats the point of keeping him On the team?  Hoping he gets hot with the bat and you can trade him for an Intl lottery ticket?  Guess that’s possible but not likely.

[sevastras]

I was hoping that Severino would have a great start and get traded, but after seeing him every game that is clearly not happening.  I would rather watch Sisco get 0 RBI for the year, but there are better catchers in the system than Severino, Wynns, and Sisco who are not named AR as well.  I want to puke every time he lets a wild pitch that he should have got.  And his pitch framing is counter productive.  At least he is standing up right after a pitch to block the umps view less than he was at the beginning of the year.   I understand the organization isnt trying to win this year, but having the worst catcher in all of baseball behind the plate isnt exactly great for player development.  I would rather watch Davis strike out every at bat then watch any more of Severino.  At least Davis can field.  

Trade Mancini as soon as you get an offer you really like.  It isnt that he is going to regress or you dont like him, he just isnt part of the future and there are other players who are.  Mountcastle to 1B, Stewart to DH, Hays to LF and when he is hurt, hopefully Diaz isnt at the same time and if so you have McKenna.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Poor defense, 622 OPS and a -.3 WAR.

Whats the point of keeping him On the team?  Hoping he gets hot with the bat and you can trade him for an Intl lottery ticket?  Guess that’s possible but not likely.

Will ownership let Elias cut him?

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

Since it hasn't been mentioned in the thread, and this is an ongoing thread about defense that may be read later when people don't remember the details of the game, I just want to point out that there was an hour rain delay prior to Stewart slipping and falling.

Whether it was an equipment issue where he should have had longer spikes or a field issue where the drainage was particularly poor in that area is unclear, but I just wanted to post this so people aren't looking back on this thread two months from now misremembering the time that Stewart randomly fell down while trying to field a flyball.

Missing the cutoff man was bad, but it is pretty embarrassing to slip and fall while trying to catch a fly ball, I kinda understand him being flustered and messing up immediately after!

This is a good point.   The play looked awful and was frustrating to watch, but it probably wouldn’t have happened on a dry field.   

[Natty]

I reckon making 4 errors in yesterdays game should make the defense thread.

[SteveA]

13 minutes ago, Natty said:

I reckon making 4 errors in yesterdays game should make the defense thread.

The defense has been disgraceful lately.   Wilkerson calls off Santander on a foul fly that Santander had a good bead on, and then drops it.   Wilkerson makes another error.   Mountcastle error at first.  Mancini error at first (that oculd have been a throwing error on Franco).   Then that play where Mancini doesn't cut off Mullins' bad throw, it gets past the catcher, Harvey isn't backing it up properly, and the batter winds up on 3rd base.   And Severino failing to block pitches that most catchers block on almost a daily basis.  

It's one thing if our pitchers aren't good enough to get the other guys out.   Or if our batters aren't good enough to score enough runs.   But the utterly sloppy, inept play we are seeing in the field is not solely based on lack of ability.   Nor are the abysmal stretches of hitting under .100 with runners in scoring position.   We aren't a good hitting team but if we can hit .230 when runners aren't in scoring position, there is no damn reason we should be hitting .093 or .150 with runners in scoring position like we have in many games.  

There are things affecting this team that go beyond not having major league ability, and they are extremely frustrating to watch. 

[webbrick2010]

Before the next round of young pitching prospects arrives Elias needs to fix the defense.

How is it we can't even get average defense out of guys who also don't hit a lick?

Needs to be an organization wide emphasis on valuing plus defenders

 

[NCRaven]

If Hays, Mullins and Santander are healthy and in the outfield, it's a very good group.  Mountcastle should be the full-time firstbaseman.  It's his best defensive position and I think he's actually pretty good there.  And, as I've said before, he hits better when he's in the field while Trey hits well as a DH.  Also, DH'ing Mancini will not hurt his trade value.  The league knows what Trey is at first and in the outfield.  They will know that he's DH'ing so the O's can get Mountcastle time at 1B.

Unfortunately, C, 2B and 3B remain giant sink holes.  Valaika and Wilkerson should only be starting games if a regular is hurt or needs a rest day.  I still think Severino is worse defensively than Sisco.  Wynns is a backup, at best.  And, I was hopefull that Franco would at least be league average, but he hasn't been.  These are the positions that need to be addressed.  Having said that, marginally improvements in these three areas could mean an extra win or two over the season with no effect other than dropping our draft position.

The O's will take their next big step when John Means, DL Hall, Grayson Rodriguez are topping the O's rotation.  Who drafted them, anyway?

[Frobby]

33 minutes ago, Natty said:

I reckon making 4 errors in yesterdays game should make the defense thread.

I’m not sure if the error on Franco was really fair.   He made a diving stop in the hole, got up and threw and the throw was a bit to the home plate side of 1B.   Mancini never saw the ball because there was a sliver of low sunshine going directly from the spot where Franco was to 1B, so Mancini didn’t react to the fact that the throw was a bit wide.   If he’d been able to see it, I think he probably could have made a stretch to that side and caught in while staying on the bag.  But I can’t say that for sure.    In any event no extra base was taken on the throw.   If I’d been scoring I’d probably have called it a hit.