John Means.... cheating?

[Camden_yardbird]

We could look at this with orange colored glasses and say he has a tick or something, but it's fairly clear to me that Means has something to make his index and middle finger sticky in his glove.

John Means isn't cheating.

1) the MLB foreign substance rules main concerns are the use of saliva or anything else to make the ball SLIPPERY or applying dirt.  The rule never mentions the word STICKY, and thats for good reason.  We know that players have been using substances to get a better grip for years.  The rule also mentions substances that alter the color of the ball, and thats why pitchers like Pineda got in trouble. 

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/doctoring-the-baseball#:~:text=Definition,an automatic 10-game suspension.

2) MLB sent out a memo to all teams saying it was going to crack down on foreign substances...that manipulate movement.  Gaining more control and "manipulating movement" are two very different things.  Luckily for us and for baseball there is a very easy way to determine if a player is manipulating movement and that is Baseball Savant.  What does baseball savant tell us about John Means?  Between 2018 and 2021 his fastball has deviated less than 1 inch in vertical movement.  His change up has moved about 3 inches from his debut but stayed steady through the last three years.  His slider shows a similar trend.  His curveball has moved the most, about 7 inches from his 2018 debut, but is actually moving less than it was last year.  Horizontal movement shows the same trends with even less change in the first three pitches.  The curve has moved the most but is also constant over the last two years.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/john-means-607644?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

So is John Means altering his curveball?  Unlikely.  What is actually happening is Means started throwing a curveball over a slider last year.  Its a pitch he didn't throw and once he decided to throw it he worked on the pitch to make it better.  How do we know?  He said so.

https://www.mlb.com/news/john-means-working-on-curveball-at-spring-training

This guy and his channel need viewers and so it quite literally pays for him to say outrageous things. But one thing is clear, John Means isn't cheating.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, Camden_yardbird said:

The rule also mentions substances that alter the color of the ball, and thats why pitchers like Pineda got in trouble. 

Worth mentioning that this is likely part of the rule because this is a good proxy or standard for determining a substance that transfers to sitting on the ball, potentially altering its flight path, rather than concern around aesthetics. 

[SteveA]

14 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Worth mentioning that this is likely part of the rule because this is a good proxy or standard for determining a substance that transfers to sitting on the ball, potentially altering its flight path, rather than concern around aesthetics. 

Don't know that it's necessarily aesthetics -- a ball that isn't bright white or isn't uniformly bright white is probably harder for the hitter to pick up, especially in certain conditions e.g. twilight.

[interloper]

I don't care. 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

I don't care. 

I care, if MLB decides Means is doing something improper that most other pitchers aren’t doing and decides to clamp down or impose some consequence.    Otherwise, I don’t care, and I will let MLB worry about it rather than trying to figure out the answer for myself.   

[bpilktree]

This was in Tim Kurkjians article today on ESPN.

This year, some hitters claim, it is even harder to hit because the sticky substance that Major League Baseball has allowed a pitcher to legally put on the baseball (Bullfrog, etc.) to give the pitcher a better grip, especially in cold weather, has also given the pitcher another added advantage. Now they have the ability to spin a ball faster than ever, so fast it will cut your shirt.

[Camden_yardbird]

56 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

This was in Tim Kurkjians article today on ESPN.

This year, some hitters claim, it is even harder to hit because the sticky substance that Major League Baseball has allowed a pitcher to legally put on the baseball (Bullfrog, etc.) to give the pitcher a better grip, especially in cold weather, has also given the pitcher another added advantage. Now they have the ability to spin a ball faster than ever, so fast it will cut your shirt.

Its a mixed bag.  As pertains to Means his movement hasn't changed. Means is down on spin rate on all 4 pitches from last year.

Among pitching WAR leaders there is a notable change among certain breaking balls that spin rate has increased as has movement.  Gerrit Cole's and Ohtani's sliders,  Musgrove's curve, Woodruff slider and curve - he has basically turned into a 'junk baller' throwing those pitches significantly more than his FB.

But there are also others who haven't seen noticeable changes.  Zach Wheeler and Kevin Gausman are top ten in WAR without any noticeable change in spin rate or movement.

[interloper]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:58 PM, Frobby said:

I care, if MLB decides Means is doing something improper that most other pitchers aren’t doing and decides to clamp down or impose some consequence.    Otherwise, I don’t care, and I will let MLB worry about it rather than trying to figure out the answer for myself.   

Well, exactly.