People are always picking on Pedro Severino, but…

[wildcard]

I don't think the 2022 backup catcher is in the O's organization now.  Its an issue for Elias to solve over the winter.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I don't think the 2022 backup catcher is in the O's organization now.  Its an issue for Elias to solve over the winter.

I agree most likely the backup catcher is coming from outside the organization. It would be cool to see Wynns step up in the second half, but I don't see that happening. 

[HowAboutThat]

22 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

With AR in the system, I'd be very surprised if the Orioles brought Severino back. If Severino played good defense this year, then the Orioles role with him as AR's backup or better yet trade him to a team that needs catching help.

Well I think a trade is out the window now and the Orioles will nontender Severino this offseason.  

I agree, I think it is completely impossible that they bring him back under any circumstances. It is inexplicable that they have kept them so far there’s just no reason to do so. He doesn’t hit well enough to make up for his defense.

the people who think Elias is deliberately sabotaging the team for draft pick purposes  have a lot of ammunition but Severino is arguable the most potent round.

[accinfo]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

You definitely have to take it with a grain of salt, especially if the differences are small.   As others noted, you have to look at who was pitching, etc.   Still, I doubt the difference between 5.08 and 7.53 is purely noise.  

How much of the difference is due to Severino catching John Means every start?  Do you give that credit to John Means or Pedro?

[MurphDogg]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

I agree, I think it is completely impossible that they bring him back under any circumstances. It is inexplicable that they have kept them so far there’s just no reason to do so. He doesn’t hit well enough to make up for his defense.

the people who think Elias is deliberately sabotaging the team for draft pick purposes  have a lot of ammunition but Severino is arguable the most potent round.

He has the 4th highest salary on the team too! To be fair it is only $1.825M and Pat Valaika of all people has the 7th highest salary on the team at $875K.

No way the Orioles tender him a contract as he would be due an arbitration raise. They aren't going to pay $2M+ for him and neither will anyone else.

Extraordinarily unlikely he will be on the team next year. 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

With AR in the system, I'd be very surprised if the Orioles brought Severino back. If Severino played good defense this year, then the Orioles role with him as AR's backup or better yet trade him to a team that needs catching help.

Well I think a trade is out the window now and the Orioles will nontender Severino this offseason.  

I was surprised they didn't nontender him last offseason.

[SteveA]

48 minutes ago, Philip said:

I agree, I think it is completely impossible that they bring him back under any circumstances. It is inexplicable that they have kept them so far there’s just no reason to do so. He doesn’t hit well enough to make up for his defense.

the people who think Elias is deliberately sabotaging the team for draft pick purposes  have a lot of ammunition but Severino is arguable the most potent round.

The people?   I have heard one person use the term deliberately sabotaging, repeatedly, and that person is you.    

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I think a lot of those numbers have to do with timing. Wynns hasn't had a chance to catch healthy Means. Pitching as a whole has been a shambles and I don't think it's because of Wynns. 

Since Wynns joined the team on May 31, the team has a 5.65 ERA with Severino catching and 7.53 with Wynns.   

Wynns has caught Jorge Lopez 5 times.  Lopez has a 5.74 ERA with Severino, 5.09 with Sisco, 6.93 with Wynns.

Wynns has caught Harvey 4 times.  Harvey has a 5.19 ERA with Severino, 13.09 with Sisco, 13.15 with Wynns.   

Wynns has caught Eshelman 3 times.   Eshelman has an ERA of 3.24 with Severino, 12.60 with Wynns.   

These are small samples, and the rest even smaller, as Wynns has caught Zimmermann, Kremer, and Lakins once each (and Lakins left the game after 1.1 IP due to injury).   But I wouldn’t say the ERA differential is primarily due to Means and Zimmermann being out, based on all the above.   


 

[HowAboutThat]

16 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The people?   I have heard one person use the term deliberately sabotaging, repeatedly, and that person is you.    

Well, friend, there are these things called “synonyms,”…

I’m not sure who else has used the word “sabotage” but the suggestion that Mike is deliberately keeping the team from improving, even if that improvement doesn’t interfere with the plan( something like, for instance, dumping Severino in favor of a better defender)is not uncommon.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Philip

[foxfield]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

The team has a 5.08 ERA when Severino catches, 5.64 when Sisco catches, 7.56 when Wynns catches.   

The team is 21-34 (.382) when Severino starts at catcher, 4-15 (.211) when Sisco starts, 3-12 (.200) when Wynns starts.

Severino has been worth 0.3 rWAR, Sisco -0.3 rWAR, Wynns -0.2 rWAR.

Severino has a .619 OPS, Sisco has a .431 OPS, Wynns a .542 OPS.

I’m not saying Severino has been good.  I’m just saying if we’re going to replace a catcher again this season, I wouldn’t be starting with Severino.   
 

Well...other than that Mr. Lincoln, how was the play.  

[Aristotelian]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Since Wynns joined the team on May 31, the team has a 5.65 ERA with Severino catching and 7.53 with Wynns.   

Wynns has caught Jorge Lopez 5 times.  Lopez has a 5.74 ERA with Severino, 5.09 with Sisco, 6.93 with Wynns.

Wynns has caught Harvey 4 times.  Harvey has a 5.19 ERA with Severino, 13.09 with Sisco, 13.15 with Wynns.   

Wynns has caught Eshelman 3 times.   Eshelman has an ERA of 3.24 with Severino, 12.60 with Wynns.   

These are small samples, and the rest even smaller, as Wynns has caught Zimmermann, Kremer, and Lakins once each (and Lakins left the game after 1.1 IP due to injury).   But I wouldn’t say the ERA differential is primarily due to Means and Zimmermann being out, based on all the above.   


 

Jorge had 7.20 ERA in June, 6.23 in July

As other poster mentioned, Harvey had one good month in April, awful since. 

I'm not sure where to get CERA numbers. Has Wynns had any major issues in previous years? I really wouldn't read anything into it other than slumping pitching staff and no Means/Zimmerman. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

44 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I was surprised they didn't nontender him last offseason.

I think the Orioles looked at Severino's OPS+ of 96 in 2019 and 94 in 2020, and thought why not have a little stability until AR is ready by keeping a catcher who isn't terrible with the bat.

I think if the Orioles knew Severino was going to be this bad in 2021 they would have non-tendered, but in baseball dollars it's still not much money down the drain. 

[spiritof66]

49 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I was surprised they didn't nontender him last offseason.

It's almost like it was too much trouble look for another lousy catcher to replace him, or maybe whatever they found was going to cost them $100,000 more than Pedro..

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

It's almost like it was too much trouble look for another lousy catcher to replace him, or maybe whatever they found was going to cost them $100,000 more than Pedro..

I mean he was a 1.0 WAR guy in 2019 and 2020, it's not like it didn't make sense to keep him. 

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Jorge had 7.20 ERA in June, 6.23 in July

As other poster mentioned, Harvey had one good month in April, awful since. 

I'm not sure where to get CERA numbers. Has Wynns had any major issues in previous years? I really wouldn't read anything into it other than slumping pitching staff and no Means/Zimmerman. 

You can get them by going to the O’s page for a given year on BB-ref, going to “pitching splits” and then “by catcher.”   In 2018, the O’s had a 6.02 ERA when Wynns caught, worst of the four catchers by a full run.   In 2019 the team ERA with Wynns was 4.90, best of the catchers, half a run better than Severino and a run better than Sisco and Sucre.