Valaika and Jahmai Jones

[Moose Milligan]

I know Valaika hit a homer yesterday.  He also slide tackled RMC on a play that helped lose the game.  

Even with that homer yesterday, "Pat the Bat" is hitting .186/.250/.236 for a whopping .486 OPS.  I know wildcard will be here shortly to defend him and explain how he needs consistent at bats in order to produce, but IMO you don't always get the luxury of consistent at bats and playing time.  You gotta take what you can get and run with it.  If someone cracks that door open for you, you've gotta bust through like a Navy Seal.  Valaika hasn't done that.

Jahmai Jones has a .903 OPS in Norfolk.  His fielding percentage is an atrocious .943.  And I know, fielding percentage isn't everything but my goodness, no one can defend a .943 no matter what range a player has.  

Valaika isn't part of the Orioles future, anyone who thinks he is is probably a family relative.  And that's fine, I understand it.  You need to root for your family members.

Jones might be a future piece for the team.  Two things I'm wondering this morning:

1.  At a .943 fielding percentage, will his bat outweigh the stone hands?  What do you have to slash and OPS to make that fielding percentage a wash?  

2.  While I've rolled my eyes at the OmG ThEy HaVe To CaLl Up JoNeS crowd on here, whatever they're doing in Norfolk to help him with his defense clearly isn't working.  Is it something that can be worked on in Baltimore?  IMO, keeping him in Norfolk isn't going to fix it. 

DFA Valaika, call up Jones and see what you got.  Get it together, Elias, it's boring here.

[Aristotelian]

I don't disagree. However, one thing people are overlooking with Jones is that his hitting record is mixed. He was a .650-.750 minor league hitter before this. If his defense also is not great, I have no problem letting him wait to make sure the hitting is for real as well as improving his D. 

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't disagree. However, one thing people are overlooking with Jones is that his hitting record is mixed. He was a .650-.750 minor league hitter before this. If his defense also is not great, I have no problem letting him wait to make sure the hitting is for real as well as improving his D. 

That's a good point about his hitting.  But he's still handled AAA pitching really well this year and it's getting to a point where you can't just label it small sample size.  

The overall point is that Jones could be a future piece, Valaika clearly isn't.  If the defense is that bad, it's not going to magically get better by staying in Norfolk and it could still be worked on while in Baltimore.  

[ChosenOne21]

I agree. I'm getting pretty tired of Valaika, and I'm not sure why they can't work on Jones's defense at the major league level.

Not sure if it applies to Norfolk, but aren't fielding percentages in the minors often hurt by the quality of the field the players play on? If so, Jones's fielding percentage might improve upon promotion just because he's on a better quality field

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's a good point about his hitting.  But he's still handled AAA pitching really well this year and it's getting to a point where you can't just label it small sample size.  

The overall point is that Jones could be a future piece, Valaika clearly isn't.  If the defense is that bad, it's not going to magically get better by staying in Norfolk and it could still be worked on while in Baltimore.  

Also Jamal Jones is going to be 24 years old in two weeks, so he's not exactly a young prospect. Plus I don't think Jones is the type of prospect that you game service time, and with a new CBA on the horizon the definition of service time might change anyways. 

Maybe Jones defense is still that bad, but he has the potential to provide a spark to a lineup that has trouble scoring runs consistently. 

[Just Regular]

Roch's long game is working well if on July 22 we're fired up for Jahmai, not Adley

I don't quite get the "Gosh, he's just so new to 2B" part of it.   Sure he was a prep CF, and then that Trout guy, but in 2018-2019, he played 1500 innings at 2B (.951 and .962 FPCT seasons).

I think he and Vavra project as the 10th/11th guys on the eventual better teams, but I'm keen for that tier of guy to get their closer to everyday reps while they can before the future front liners start crowding them out.

Among Jones, Vavra, Norby, we do have a starter kit for some kind of next generation Jerry Hairston-Brian Roberts thing if Westburg and Henderson can both cling to the left side of the infield.    A litmus test for 2023 success will be are one or two of those guys traded for some good pitcher in July.

[interloper]

This Pat Valaika saga is going to single-handedly turn me from a groveling Elias lapdog yes-man into... well... slightly less of one. 

Like, it's basically indefensible. It's so stupid. Even if you don't want to call up Jones yet, fine, but at least play Leyba at 2B full time. He's at least younger and has maybe a shred of upside. 

I honestly think they are playing Valaika for one of two reasons: a) Hyde loves his "veteranosity" or b) Valaika is making more money from arbitration and they want to "get value" out of that expense. Both are gross.

[Just Regular]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

This Pat Valaika saga is going to single-handedly turn me from a groveling Elias lapdog yes-man into... well... slightly less of one. 

I saw the slide tackle as it happened and the thing that flashed to mind was Ruiz botching a routine 2B ground ball a few days before his release, and joking that noted sensitive conversation specialist Sig Mejdal was going to have to talk to Mike Elias.   

I don't think Elias' Valaika commitment is as high, and the play itself it could have been either of them's ball.   I do think Valaika might have more of a champion in Hyde, just for doing him the duty of trying his best at SS when Iglesias' legs went last summer.

Note to Mountcastle - don't laugh and say "I'm a free fielder" if skip wants to ask you about the play.

[byrdz]

The pitching is already the worst in baseball and giving up tons of home runs. So not sure how much his poor fielding would hurt tbh. If they’re going to try Jones out now seems like as good a time as any. 

[Yardball85]

44 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I agree. I'm getting pretty tired of Valaika, and I'm not sure why they can't work on Jones's defense at the major league level.

Not sure if it applies to Norfolk, but aren't fielding percentages in the minors often hurt by the quality of the field the players play on? If so, Jones's fielding percentage might improve upon promotion just because he's on a better quality field

This is where I'm at. Yes, his defense is bad, but it's not it matters if the Orioles win games or not, so bad defense from him won't be that damaging. May as well get his feet wet, let him face MLB pitching, and let him work with the MLB coaches to improve his defense.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know Valaika hit a homer yesterday.  He also slide tackled RMC on a play that helped lose the game.  

Even with that homer yesterday, "Pat the Bat" is hitting .186/.250/.236 for a whopping .486 OPS.  I know wildcard will be here shortly to defend him and explain how he needs consistent at bats in order to produce, but IMO you don't always get the luxury of consistent at bats and playing time.  You gotta take what you can get and run with it.  If someone cracks that door open for you, you've gotta bust through like a Navy Seal.  Valaika hasn't done that.

Jahmai Jones has a .903 OPS in Norfolk.  His fielding percentage is an atrocious .943.  And I know, fielding percentage isn't everything but my goodness, no one can defend a .943 no matter what range a player has.  

Interestingly, Jones had 7 errors in 32 games at 2B and the other Norfolk 2B have 7 errors in 33 games.   So it’s not just him.   

That made me think maybe that’s normal for AAA, with lower quality fields than the majors.   But I checked 3-4 other random teams and they were all much better than .940.   

Even bat-first 2B like Jeff Kent and Dan Uggla were up around .980 in the majors.

One thing I don’t know is whether the majority of his errors come from fielding or throwing.    

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know Valaika hit a homer yesterday.  He also slide tackled RMC on a play that helped lose the game.  

Even with that homer yesterday, "Pat the Bat" is hitting .186/.250/.236 for a whopping .486 OPS.  I know wildcard will be here shortly to defend him and explain how he needs consistent at bats in order to produce, but IMO you don't always get the luxury of consistent at bats and playing time.  You gotta take what you can get and run with it.  If someone cracks that door open for you, you've gotta bust through like a Navy Seal.  Valaika hasn't done that.

Jahmai Jones has a .903 OPS in Norfolk.  His fielding percentage is an atrocious .943.  And I know, fielding percentage isn't everything but my goodness, no one can defend a .943 no matter what range a player has.  

Valaika isn't part of the Orioles future, anyone who thinks he is is probably a family relative.  And that's fine, I understand it.  You need to root for your family members.

Jones might be a future piece for the team.  Two things I'm wondering this morning:

1.  At a .943 fielding percentage, will his bat outweigh the stone hands?  What do you have to slash and OPS to make that fielding percentage a wash?  

2.  While I've rolled my eyes at the OmG ThEy HaVe To CaLl Up JoNeS crowd on here, whatever they're doing in Norfolk to help him with his defense clearly isn't working.  Is it something that can be worked on in Baltimore?  IMO, keeping him in Norfolk isn't going to fix it. 

DFA Valaika, call up Jones and see what you got.  Get it together, Elias, it's boring here.

I’m not going to defend his poor performance so far. But, if you ever played organized sports you’ll know that most guys perform better playing regularly.

[spiritof66]

Maybe I just missed it, but I'm not clear on the nature of Jones' problems at second base. I've seen just a little of him there (on MiL.TV), and it was uneventful.

It seems to me that the basic tools you need to have to be a competent second baseman are sufficient speed and quickness, mostly of the lateral variety, to give you sufficient range; an ability to catch ground balls, line drives and popups; an arm that will enable you to make hard and accurate throws from the short outfield to the catcher (on relays), and from behind second base and from shallow left field to first base (some of those throws  have to be made without time for gathering to get balance or help from the legs); an absence of Sax-Knoblauch Syndrome for the "traditional," shorter throws to first; and enough agility to make the pivot on double plays.

It seems to me that everything else you need to play 2B at a decent level -- the footwork for the DP pivot; feeding the SS (or 3Bman covering second) on double play balls; tagging and maintaining the tag; pick-off plays; where to go and where to throw on fly balls in potential tagging situations, hits to the outfield and ground balls to the right side; executing rundowns; reacting to attempted double steals of second and home; working with and real-time cooperation with outfielders on popups and bloops between the infield and outfield; and a bunch of things I'm sure I forgot -- should be teachable and learnable. Rio Ruiz and Steve Pearce seemed to pick them up pretty quickly, though I understand their situations were different from Jones'.

Can someone explain what Jones's defensive problems at 2B are, and venture an opinion on whether they reflect basic shortcomings that will limit his upside to being an average defender at that position (or worse), or there's a real possibility that, with some dedicated instruction this off-season, he can be better than that? I'd really like to get a better idea of whether I think it's useful to give him some major-league ABs this season.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know Valaika hit a homer yesterday.  He also slide tackled RMC on a play that helped lose the game.  

Even with that homer yesterday, "Pat the Bat" is hitting .186/.250/.236 for a whopping .486 OPS.  I know wildcard will be here shortly to defend him and explain how he needs consistent at bats in order to produce, but IMO you don't always get the luxury of consistent at bats and playing time.  You gotta take what you can get and run with it.  If someone cracks that door open for you, you've gotta bust through like a Navy Seal.  Valaika hasn't done that.

Jahmai Jones has a .903 OPS in Norfolk.  His fielding percentage is an atrocious .943.  And I know, fielding percentage isn't everything but my goodness, no one can defend a .943 no matter what range a player has.  

Valaika isn't part of the Orioles future, anyone who thinks he is is probably a family relative.  And that's fine, I understand it.  You need to root for your family members.

Jones might be a future piece for the team.  Two things I'm wondering this morning:

1.  At a .943 fielding percentage, will his bat outweigh the stone hands?  What do you have to slash and OPS to make that fielding percentage a wash?  

2.  While I've rolled my eyes at the OmG ThEy HaVe To CaLl Up JoNeS crowd on here, whatever they're doing in Norfolk to help him with his defense clearly isn't working.  Is it something that can be worked on in Baltimore?  IMO, keeping him in Norfolk isn't going to fix it. 

DFA Valaika, call up Jones and see what you got.  Get it together, Elias, it's boring here.

Well Moose you are WRONG again.   Not about Jones or Valaika but about me defending Valaika.   I agree he is not part of the future.  I still think he would hit better play full time but that opportunity never happened with he O's and its unlike to happen ever.

There is couple of things to watch that might keep him in the  Orioles organization though.

1) If they are able to trade Galvis before the deadline.   Galvis is still owed 500K for the rest of the season.  I think Elias would love to save that money.

2) Valiaka  will cost around 290K to keep in the majors but they can option him and he will cost a little over 100K.   Its cheaper to option him then DFA him.  He has no trade value.

[billw76]

I don't really see the benefit of running Valaika and other similar guys like Wilkerson out there year after year is, give the younger guys a shot at this point.

The team is absolutely terrible and has been since 17, I'd much rather see Jones get a shot than watch Valaika every day. Is Jones fielding really that much worse than Valaikas hitting.