I’m about ready to give up on DJ Stewart

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I am disappointed in DJ’s development and believe he has not been successful. I don’t remember his scouting report but I think he was a question mark on the hit tool because there was questions that he could make the swing adjustments to hit as a pro. Those appear to be accurate. His defense and base running to me are where I am disappointed.

Just curious about why his baserunning disappoints you.  BB-ref has him as neutral.   

[DrungoHazewood]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Which is OK, but where is the bright line where you cross from failure to success?  To me, there is no bright line, other than reaching the majors at all.   Once that line is crossed, there are relative degrees of success but everyone has been successful to some degree.   

243 players debuted in 2018, including DJ Stewart.   103 didn’t get into a major league game in 2021, but DJ Stewart is still hanging in there.   He’s 87th in rWAR in that group of debut players.   So, more successful than even the average guy in his debut class who reached the majors, at least so far.   
 

I think it's a continuum.  I think players who made their high school team have had some level of success they should be proud of, just watching my own kids play soccer I know how much work and how much of a challenge that can be at least at some schools.  Anyone who played in college or the low minors is a heck of a player.  Anyone who had any kind of success in the minors is better than almost any of us have known or even played with or against (some exceptions, of course, for those who're often around pro ballplayers).  Just making the majors is something that's rare and special. 

My high school is probably a pretty typical high school, 1500 or 2000 students most years, occasionally pretty good records in football, baseball, basketball, soccer.  I don't think in the nearly 40 years since I started there have we had a single player make it out of A ball.  That's probably 500 players over that time, and nobody has ever gotten close to the majors. 

I get the idea that if you're not contributing to a good MLB team you're disappointing.  But I try to keep that in context.  Someone like DJ Stewart is like a politician who was in the state legislature for 15 years, in the House for a couple terms, ran for President and didn't make it out of the primaries, so to some people he's a huge disappointment as a politician.  I guess I just don't like the attitude that you're some kind of loser if you're not the very, very best in the world.  It would be depressing to think that almost everyone is a disappointment.

[DrungoHazewood]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just curious about why his baserunning disappoints you.  BB-ref has him as neutral.   

He doesn't look like a fast, athletic guy and he doesn't steal bases.  For the first 130 years of baseball history that was the only way to judge baserunning.  Rbaser wasn't a thing.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

He doesn't look like a fast, athletic guy and he doesn't steal bases.  For the first 130 years of baseball history that was the only way to judge baserunning.  Rbaser wasn't a thing.

I figure if he can make it a few more years and luck into a hot streak during a playoff series Stewart can turn this nonathletic appearance thing into a win. 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think it's clear that if any non-Oriole player in a particular draft outperforms an Oriole draft pick chosen before them then that Oriole draft pick was a mistake and the player is a disappointment.

Yes!  Exactly.  Especially by that guy on the board who absolutely 100% knew that the guy the Orioles didn't take was going to be better.  You know there's people here who have Austin Martin's and Nick Gonzales' MiLB pages bookmarked, ready to pounce on the Orioles' short-sighted, stupid, penny-pinching staff the moment they have a good week in AA.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I figure if he can make it a few more years and luck into a hot streak during a playoff series Stewart can turn this nonathletic appearance thing into a win. 

 

There's always a fine line between guy with no talent we clearly should have never taken a chance on and scrappy underdog making the most of his limited athleticism.  Tough path for Stewart because most fans think all first round picks are somewhere between All Stars and Hall of Famers.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There's always a fine line between guy with no talent we clearly should have never taken a chance on and scrappy underdog making the most of his limited athleticism.  Tough path for Stewart because most fans think all first round picks are somewhere between All Stars and Hall of Famers.

Yep.  I can just see an alternative timeline in which a guy exactly like Stewart is a fan favorite.  He checks a lot of boxes. 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yep.  I can just see an alternative timeline in which a guy exactly like Stewart is a fan favorite.  He checks a lot of boxes. 

 

He just needs a new organization to reset the expectations from 25th overall pick to underdog fighter who was written off because he doesn't look like Bo Jackson.  I'd guess Steve Pearce was disappointing to Pirates fans, but is now a little bit of a cult hero to multiple franchises.

[HowAboutThat]

12 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Eh, I'll assume that so no one else has to.

He doesn't do much well outside of walk.  I mean, let's be real here, his on base percentage and patience at the plate is the only reason any one of us is remotely interested in keeping him around.  

He's a one trick pony.  And I guess there's room in the game for guys that are one trick ponies.  But it better be a hell of a trick.  Since Stewart can't get that batting average up high enough, the OBP still isn't that great despite the nice separation between the two.

 

 

What are you blathering about, Phil?

Getting to the major leagues is a huge accomplishment, but it's not a success?  How are you defining what a success is?  

 

Success is getting to the major leagues and being productive. Just showing up for a game or two I can’t be called success. It can only be called another step in the process. Because it is not the end goal it is a step to that end goal. Replacement players Have accomplished the goal of making it to the big leagues, but they can’t be called successes. Success has to mean something more than that.

[Pickles]

I think this whole argument about "success' is a pretty silly semantic distraction.

From a personal perspective, make the MLs should be seen as a great accomplishment and a 25 year career of playing baseball ultimately a success.

However, from an organizational perspective, developing amateurs into replacement level players cannot be seen as a success.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Philip said:

Success is getting to the major leagues and being productive. Just showing up for a game or two I can’t be called success. It can only be called another step in the process. Because it is not the end goal it is a step to that end goal. Replacement players Have accomplished the goal of making it to the big leagues, but they can’t be called successes. Success has to mean something more than that.

OK, so what does it mean?    I will give you 10 players.

Ryan Flaherty

Brian Matusz

Troy Patton

Pedro Alvarez

Delino Deshields (the younger one)

Taijuan Walker

Joe Panick

Dylan Bundy

Albert Almora

Andrew Heaney

Which do you consider a success or a failure?

 

 

[HowAboutThat]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, so what does it mean?    I will give you 10 players.

Ryan Flaherty

Brian Matusz

Troy Patton

Pedro Alvarez

Delino Deshields (the younger one)

Taijuan Walker

Joe Panick

Dylan Bundy

Albert Almora

Andrew Heaney

Which do you consider a success or a failure?

 

 

A couple of those names I don’t know but I’ll surely respond to the others.

Flaherty was a first round draft pick who declined to a Rule 5 pick, but then was a valuable player for us. I’d call him a success.

Matusz was a #4(?) pick who failed to live up to his promise and was mainly a disaster. I’d call him a non-success and I can’t imagine anyone saying he had a successful career.

Troy had some major off field problems that curtailed his career but I’d call him successful.

Alvarez, no.

Bundy a disappointment no

Walker was ruined by injuries no.

I remember Heaney but not enough to comment and I don’t recall Almora.

now In return.

Brach was a success, Pearce was, but I’d also call Joey Rickard a success, because so little was expected of him and he managed to hang around for a couple seasons.

Remember, there’s some ratio of actual production to expected production, and the guys I consider successes surpass that ratio, whatever it is.

regardless, at some point we are just arguing semantics, but no I don’t consider DJ to be a success, and no I don’t consider merely being promoted to the big leagues a success.

I do consider it a huge accomplishment, but getting there is only a preliminary to doing something meaningful once you arrive.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Philip

[HowAboutThat]

26 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I think this whole argument about "success' is a pretty silly semantic distraction.

From a personal perspective, make the MLs should be seen as a great accomplishment and a 25 year career of playing baseball ultimately a success.

However, from an organizational perspective, developing amateurs into replacement level players cannot be seen as a success.

Yes in my reply to Frobby I said that eventually it just comes down to semantics. But your final paragraph says it in a nutshell.

[Frobby]

Thanks for your answers, @Philip.   I think whether he’s a success depends a bit on the question.   Here’s three different statements.  

DJ Stewart was a successful baseball player.

DJ Stewart was a successful draft pick

DJ Stewart was a successful major leaguer

Personally I’d say yes to 1 and 2, no to 3 (at this stage)
 

[HowAboutThat]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Thanks for your answers, @Philip.   I think whether he’s a success depends a bit on the question.   Here’s three different statements.  

DJ Stewart was a successful baseball player.

DJ Stewart was a successful draft pick

DJ Stewart was a successful major leaguer

Personally I’d say yes to 1 and 2, no to 3 (at this stage)
 

Well, If we accept that at the moment we are just discussing semantics, I’ll respond:

I don’t think he’s a successful baseball player. Why do you think he is?

I think he was the 25th overall pick, I guess whether he was a successful draft pick would depend on what one expects from the 25th pick based on all the 25th picks, and where he did relative to the group. I don’t know, although you shared that information I think, But I will reiterate that being among the best of a bad group doesn’t really make one good.

And yes I don’t think he has been a successful MLB player. he may Find Jesus and become one but not yet.