I’m about ready to give up on DJ Stewart

[Bmorebirds24]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

In my opinion, that’s the goal NOW.   If the record doesn’t improve pretty significantly in 2022, something is wrong.  

Now, you might say, the team hasn’t made big moves to improve, so why do I expect improvement?    First of all, the offseason isn’t over.   Second, I think the little moves they’ve made help at the margins, even though I’m not excited about them.   But third and by far most importantly, I think the younger players who were on the team last year will improve with experience and they will get help from guys coming up from the minors, especially Rutschman and Rodriguez.  If that doesn’t happen, little else matters.   
 

I have to ask what do you consider improving “significantly”? I still Think this team won’t reach .500. However I expect to see more competitive and fundamentally sound baseball. Depending on the new CBA I exprct them to manipulate the call ups and taking this year to start making a check list of what players we are competing with and who will be the core/leaders going forward. I think after this season is when we can fill In a few free agent pieces and get to .500 and above in 2023. Obviously I hope they shock the world but my rational thinking is another sub .500 season. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

And you call CoC (and ME!) a troll.   I wish I had a dollar for every time you throw this in a post.   The goal is to have a competetive team, longterm, with sustainability.     Their short term goals do not match what you desire.   Please get over it!

I’m saying it within the context of the conversation.  It’s true.  They don’t are about winning so putting out mediocre talent like McKenna is fine to them.  
 

They don’t care about improving right now, so they will go with him (or Mateo).  
 

That’s not trolling.  That’s telling the truth within the context of the discussion.  It would have been trolling if I just said it with any context.  That’s usually what you do, you should understand that.
 

When we are talking about how they did a good job of improving the park, mentioning that they don’t spend the money, when that is something that wasn’t mentioned, is trolling.  That is trying to fit your narrative in without any context.

Me talking about how I would like to see improvement from the 4th OF spot in a thread where we are discussing the 4th OFers doesn’t do that.

 

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Because the majors aren't the only place that exploits that. The best orgs work these problems up before they're getting meaningful ABs to the greatest extent possible.

I'm not saying they fix every problem, but McKenna really doesn't deserve ML time without fixing holes in his swing. AAA is a great place to work on that.

AAA would be a great place to work on that if most of the pitchers in AAA were good enough to exploit that, able to locate 94-96 mph fastballs high in the zone and above the zone.   Most of those pitchers are in the majors.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

I have to ask what do you consider improving “significantly”? I still Think this team won’t reach .500. However I expect to see more competitive and fundamentally sound baseball. Depending on the new CBA I exprct them to manipulate the call ups and taking this year to start making a check list of what players we are competing with and who will be the core/leaders going forward. I think after this season is when we can fill In a few free agent pieces and get to .500 and above in 2023. Obviously I hope they shock the world but my rational thinking is another sub .500 season. 

What I expect in 2022 is to improve by 10-20 wins.   That leaves them well short of .500.   I’ll add that I would not be very satisfied with a 10 win improvement.   I said in another thread that I’d be satisfied with 70 wins, but also could be satisfied with a few less than that depending on other developments beyond the W/L record.   

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

If you sign a 4th OF, McKenna likely goes back to AAA where he OPS'd over 1.000.  He needs to sink or swim at the ML level.  There's only one way to find out.  Even a contender would probably ride with McKenna.  No reason for the Orioles not to.

McKenna is perfect for the 5th OF/26th man spot.  The very occasional spot start, pinch runner, late inning defensive replacement, fill in for a few days because of injuries type guy.

I love that role for him and the 26th spot on the bench makes it easier to carry a player like that.  
 

I think he’s an asset to the team when used properly.  I don’t think giving him 300+ at bats is helping us.

I disagree that a contender would have McKenna in a position where he is essentially your first guy off the bench.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Yes I agree completely, I think that natural progression has gotten to the point where we need to stop focusing on acquiring future talent and start exhibiting our current talent. I don’t necessarily think we need to blow a bunch of money on a high dollar free agent, as a matter fact I oppose that. But it’s time to cut bait on a lot of people, and it’s time to give others a meaningful opportunity. Last year’s use of our pitching staff was pretty inexplicable in a lot of ways.

But Mike Elias hasn’t said anything about flipping the switch, as far as we know, he still doesn’t care about the on field product.

Rutschman and Rodriguez making the majors is a huge deal. The switch is flipped as soon as they are promoted no matter how much Elias tries to slow-play it.

[emmett16]

@Tony-OH in general how do you think they work the players into the system.  24 players seems like a lot to accommodate.  A few DSL players will graduate to to FCL and low minors and I imagine that a few DSL players get cut.  Does adding 24 new players mean that 24 guys will be gone from last years  DSL teams one way or another?   Will the DSL teams carry a larger roster?  Just curious on the mechanics of bringing the new guys in.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Rutschman and Rodriguez making the majors is a huge deal. The switch is flipped as soon as they are promoted no matter how much Elias tries to slow-play it.

Exactly right.  Which is why they should  be trying to be better this year while still focusing on the long term goals.  In other words, you don’t make a bunch of moves that are a detriment to the long term good of the team.

 

[emmett16]

Sorry - wrong thread

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

McKenna is perfect for the 5th OF/26th man spot.  The very occasional spot start, pinch runner, late inning defensive replacement, fill in for a few days because of injuries type guy.

I love that role for him and the 26th spot on the bench makes it easier to carry a player like that.  

For me, a guy with a .559 OPS is never perfect for any spot.  David Lough was fine in that role when he had a .694 OPS, not fine when his OPS slipped to .555 the next year.   

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

For me, a guy with a .559 OPS is never perfect for any spot.  David Lough was fine in that role when he had a .694 OPS, not fine when his OPS slipped to .555 the next year.   

That’s fair.  I would agree he needs to be better than a 560 OPS guy.  I think he will but I don’t think he’s much better than 675ish.

Speed  and defense still have a place in the game though, even if teams don’t utilize it.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s fair.  I would agree he needs to be better than a 560 OPS guy.  I think he will but I don’t think he’s much better than 675ish.

Speed  and defense still have a place in the game though, even if teams don’t utilize it.

I think we are on the same page here.   

[Philip]

22 hours ago, Frobby said:

Here is what he has said:

“We think that this team will continuously get better from this point forward. That’s what I think. We have a lot of young talent here. Young talent tends to get better. We know we’re far away from the other competitors on our division, all four of them. We’ve got a ways to go to get back in that fight and we’re being mindful of that first and foremost, the ultimate goal, which is to get to that level of play that we’re going to need to to compete consistently in this division. So that’s going to be first and foremost in our thinking and our front office’s thinking and we don’t want to do anything to derail or shortchange that. But I do think there are ways to simultaneously allow our internal players the opportunity to continue to get playing time and not being blocked when we have an interesting player that we want to see play for a while, that can help bolster this team so it is better on a night-to-night basis and also kind of carry forward our long-term goal. So we’re going to try to reconcile all of those different goals and what we do this winter, whether that’s free agents or trades or other types of acquisitions.”
https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/09/elias-on-coaching-staff-starting-pitching-free-agents-and-more.html

So, to me Elias has stated that he expects the team to start getting better from here.   And that is what I expect too.   I don’t think it’s true that Elias doesn’t care about the on-the-field product.    He does care, but he cares more about what is best for the long term success of the franchise than he does about the short term.   As he should, IMO.

You’re misunderstanding me, and I think you also misunderstood Elias. He didn’t say anything significant in that statement. Yes I think the team will be marginally better just because of the natural evolution of replacing bad players with better players. The current infield is better than the previous, for instance( how much is debatable, but better is not) 

I’m not talking about that kind of improvement. I’m talking about Mike actively seeking guys, either by trade or free agent signing, who will step on to the big club right now, and be a significant improvement. Elias didn’t say he was going to do that, that he wanted to do that, or was ready to do it. He actually, in his GM-Speak way, said he WASN’T going to. “….first and foremost in our thinking and we don’t want to do anything to derail or shortchange that.” So his focus is still on developing the pipeline and not on improving win totals. He did include a sop at the end about “…free  agents or trades or other acquisitions,” but it’s clear that his focus is still on internal development and not on actively improving the big roster. If the team happens to win 65 instead of 60, great, but he’s given every indication that that is not his current goal.

He does want to let our internal guys develop, and yes the team will improve, which is probably unavoidable. But this statement doesn’t indicate that he has any interest in any significant acquisitions of “MLB-ready” guys who can be meaningfully productive. Until he acts to show otherwise, he’s still planning on getting warm bodies.

[Philip]

22 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Rutschman and Rodriguez making the majors is a huge deal. The switch is flipped as soon as they are promoted no matter how much Elias tries to slow-play it.

I certainly think that it will be just wasting service time if they are not promoted to a team that is ready for them. And it makes sense to anticipate the promotion of those guys, and to spend the remaining off-season getting guys that are closer to their level then to previous levels.

So yes I agree with you, on the other hand we haven’t seen him do anything. It’s possible that he didn’t do anything because of the anticipated lockout, but he hasn’t said anything Solid except continuing to develop his player pipeline. So yes I agree with you but We need to see him do some thing, and we haven’t yet.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

You’re misunderstanding me, and I think you also misunderstood Elias. He didn’t say anything significant in that statement. Yes I think the team will be marginally better just because of the natural evolution of replacing bad players with better players. The current infield is better than the previous, for instance( how much is debatable, but better is not) 

I’m not talking about that kind of improvement. I’m talking about Mike actively seeking guys, either by trade or free agent signing, who will step on to the big club right now, and be a significant improvement. Elias didn’t say he was going to do that, that he wanted to do that, or was ready to do it. He actually, in his GM-Speak way, said he WASN’T going to. “….first and foremost in our thinking and we don’t want to do anything to derail or shortchange that.” So his focus is still on developing the pipeline and not on improving win totals. He did include a sop at the end about “…free  agents or trades or other acquisitions,” but it’s clear that his focus is still on internal development and not on actively improving the big roster. If the team happens to win 65 instead of 60, great, but he’s given every indication that that is not his current goal.

He does want to let our internal guys develop, and yes the team will improve, which is probably unavoidable. But this statement doesn’t indicate that he has any interest in any significant acquisitions of “MLB-ready” guys who can be meaningfully productive. Until he acts to show otherwise, he’s still planning on getting warm bodies.

I misunderstood you, but not Elias.   He clearly did not commit to any “significant acquisitions.”   Not sure exactly where the “significant” line is drawn, but I’m sure we agree that Lyles and Odor don’t meet that definition.   It would not surprise me if Elias signed someone more “significant” than those two, but he certainly hasn’t said anything to suggest he will.