Jones UP!! (Franco DFA)

[Pushmonkey]

31 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Ummm yea keep that Woke ideas up. 

[Brooks The Great]

4 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

Chances of keeping Franco after this year = 0 %
Chances of keeping Jones after this year = 20 %, but more data would be helpful
Chances of keeping Gutierrez after this year = 10 %

Makes this year's decision easy, doesn't it? The only odd part is that it took Elias so long to get there. I forgot to mention the extra cost of promoting these two for a quarter season, in the range of $500,000; that may be the reason.

 

How is keeping the team awful enough to lose 18 straight games and fly into position for the #1 pick odd? Because the delays in these moves are explained by tanking for the pick. That's primarily it. The savings you mentioned are most likely also a reason.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Looked it up because I was curious and Franco was having his worst month at the plate in August with a .449 OPS. And since the all star break his OPS has been .500. 

[Three Run Homer]

I'm surprised that so many people believe that Jones won't be protected this off-season.  He came into this season with zero AAA experience, and a mediocre track record at AA.  He was a toolsy guy who was picked high in the draft but hadn't produced much at the plate and had struggled defensively. 

So what's happened?  He's spent essentially all season at Norfolk and has produced better in his first crack at AAA than he had previously at AA.  He's only 24 years old and he still has speed, power and athleticism.   And he was acquired straight up for Alex Cobb.  He still needs to find a defensive position, and I'm not saying that he's going to set the big leagues on fire for the rest of the season, but this is not the profile of someone who you would typically give up on after one season in your organization.    

[forphase1]

14 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

I'm surprised that so many people believe that Jones won't be protected this off-season.  He came into this season with zero AAA experience, and a mediocre track record at AA.  He was a toolsy guy who was picked high in the draft but hadn't produced much at the plate and had struggled defensively. 

So what's happened?  He's spent essentially all season at Norfolk and has produced better in his first crack at AAA than he had previously at AA.  He's only 24 years old and he still has speed, power and athleticism.   And he was acquired straight up for Alex Cobb.  He still needs to find a defensive position, and I'm not saying that he's going to set the big leagues on fire for the rest of the season, but this is not the profile of someone who you would typically give up on after one season in your organization.    

The problem is we have quite a few folks to protect this offseason.  Yes, we clearly have some spots we can easily free up, but not enough to my understanding.  40 man spots are going to be at a premium, and we need to decide if someone like Jones is worth putting someone else at risk.  I certainly don't disagree with most of what you wrote about Jones, but at the end of the day if we protect him that means we may leave someone else liable to be this winters Pop.  That doesn't mean Jones shouldn't be protected, but that does mean we should get as good of an idea that we possibly can to determine if he deserves that protection.  

[Il BuonO]

10 hours ago, Ripken said:

I'm more excited about the DFAs than the call ups.  Your 2021 Orioles!

Yes, but sometimes that’s progress, especially on a team as bad as this one. 

I, for one, will not miss Franco and his ridiculous attempts at bare handing balls that should be gloved. Horrible. You could hear Jim Palmer’s frustration every time he tried it. Good riddance.

[sportsfan8703]

For now, we need an extended look at what the bats of Jones, Urias, and Mateo, are capable of at the MLB level. SS defense might be hard for all three of them, but we should be able to piece together 2B and 3B, between the three of them. 

This is where we miss Bobby Dickerson. 

[Yardball85]

22 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

I’d rather have seen Rylan Bannon than Guitierrez.

Same. 

[Yardball85]

15 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

I am super pissed about Martin. Let him play!!

I'm not.  He really isn't that good.  Though it is pretty sad, for him, that he was optioned on a team that is awful with no real option at SS. Not a good sign for Richie. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

For now, we need an extended look at what the bats of Jones, Urias, and Mateo, are capable of at the MLB level. SS defense might be hard for all three of them, but we should be able to piece together 2B and 3B, between the three of them. 

This is where we miss Hardy, Schoop and Machado.

Fixed that for you.  

[sportsfan8703]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Fixed that for you.  

Yeah I thought about that, but nobody thought Schoop could be what Dickerson squeezed out of him on defense. Also, Davis(sorry for the bad word) made huge strides defensively. Flaherty went from positionless to a guy that could play capably across the IF. Heck, Pearce played 2B a few times.

Nobody could fix Jimmy Parades, but he had one heckuva a hot streak. All Star numbers the first half of a season. 
 

Jones, Urias, and Mateo, are all big time athletes that with coaching and shifting should be able to hold down the IF until Westburg and Gunnar arrive. 

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

SS defense might be hard for all three of them, but we should be able to piece together 2B and 3B, between the three of them. 

This is where we miss Bobby Dickerson. 

He’s definitely made his mark.

During the series with the Tigers, Schoop briefly played 2B and made a tag on an attempted steal (I forget who it was). It was textbook Dickerson. Schoop made the tag keeping the glove on the runner and got the out. Hardy also was very proficient at that play.
 

[SteveA]

18 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

With MiLB adding a few weeks to the Minor League season, Norfolk now ends the same time as Baltimore. That wasn’t the case before as there would usually be a few weeks gap. With the additional playing time now, plus the (in my opinion, horrible decision) rule of “only 1 pitcher and 1 fielder” roster “expansion,” we could see a bit more of a rotation as players won’t be in their off season.

Yep, basically the Norfolk shuttle can be in operation until the next to last day of the season.

[SteveA]

14 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

How is keeping the team awful enough to lose 18 straight games and fly into position for the #1 pick odd? Because the delays in these moves are explained by tanking for the pick. That's primarily it. The savings you mentioned are most likely also a reason.

Look, in general GMs are always more conservative at getting rid of MLB underperformers than the fans want.   That's not new to Elias.  Go back on OH to ANY year and there will be struggling players and you can find hundreds of posts about why is he still here.

GMs want more sample size to make a decision, especially if it is an irrevocable decision to let an asset go.   It's just the way of the world.  Add to that Elias slow playing prospects.

Go back and look at Garret Atkins, or Dan Straily, or Steve Kline.  Or that reliever with the glasses that we kept all season whose name escapes me.

I don't think these decisions are made based on tanking.  I think that it is based on slow playing prospects and on wanting a bigger sample size than fans want before ditching someone.

And then -- go back and look at the transaction list for the Orioles this year.   I doubt any team in baseball has DFA'd more guys than we have.  We've churned 32 pitchers through our staff already and I expect a few more (Burdi, maybe Baumann) before its over.  

[jamalshw]

30 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Look, in general GMs are always more conservative at getting rid of MLB underperformers than the fans want.   That's not new to Elias.  Go back on OH to ANY year and there will be struggling players and you can find hundreds of posts about why is he still here.

GMs want more sample size to make a decision, especially if it is an irrevocable decision to let an asset go.   It's just the way of the world.  Add to that Elias slow playing prospects.

Go back and look at Garret Atkins, or Dan Straily, or Steve Kline.  Or that reliever with the glasses that we kept all season whose name escapes me.

I don't think these decisions are made based on tanking.  I think that it is based on slow playing prospects and on wanting a bigger sample size than fans want before ditching someone.

And then -- go back and look at the transaction list for the Orioles this year.   I doubt any team in baseball has DFA'd more guys than we have.  We've churned 32 pitchers through our staff already and I expect a few more (Burdi, maybe Baumann) before its over.  

Kevin Gregg?

And to your larger point, I somewhat agree. I don't think it's solely due to tanking. It's due to wanting to avoid starting clocks earlier than necessary, wanting to save money on would be big league salaries when we are already paying someone guaranteed money, and wanting to be extra cautious with prospects particularly given the lack of a minor league season last year. That said, there's no heartburn about losing right now and I don't think winning at the big league level is anywhere in the thought processes. So while tanking for the #1 pick may not be the direct motivation, it is an indirect one.