Cedric on the block

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

I honestly hope this is the last consideration Elias has in this rebuild. His job is to build a sustained winner. With that will come the fans. 

Do you think companies should not care about their shareholders?

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Tell me what has been done with the rebuild that couldn’t have been done if they were trying to win, outside of a high pick.

What else has been accomplished that can’t be if you are a winning team?

Well that’s just it ….the higher draft lots are more valuable. It’s not fool proof and you actually need to take the best player for it to work. But, teams have benefited handsomely from the approach. Who were the Astros before they did it.

[owknows]

Just now, LookinUp said:

I honestly hope this is the last consideration Elias has in this rebuild. His job is to build a sustained winner. With that will come the fans. 

This is probably the one point where I am most sympathetic to the "ownership sucks, why can't we win now" crowd.

Baseball is a slowly eroding sport to begin with. Setting the fan base completely adrift for half a decade is a little risky for long term health.

 

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Do you think companies should not care about their shareholders?

Highly invested shareholders looking for long term growth and health of the company, or short term investors looking to make short term gains?

[LookinUp]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Do you think companies should not care about their shareholders?

Of course they should, but this is a professional sports team and all I'm saying is the GM should do what he thinks is best, not what Johnny Message Board comes up with.

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

This is probably the one point where I am most sympathetic to the "ownership sucks, why can't we win now" crowd.

Baseball is a slowly eroding sport to begin with. Setting the fan base completely adrift for half a decade is a little risky for long term health.

 

They went 14 years with losing and brought fans back in droves when they finally won. The point is we need a 10-20 year run, not a 3 year run and the fans aren't expert on what that takes.

[interloper]

It's just not time to wade into the free agent waters. SG and others are a year or two early with their ire IMO. I get wanting to get a jump on it and look like you're fielding a respectable team. I just don't really care that much. For me that's next year maybe. 

 

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Of course they should, but this is a professional sports team and all I'm saying is the GM should do what he thinks is best, not what Johnny Message Board comes up with.

They went 14 years with losing and brought fans back in droves when they finally won. The point is we need a 10-20 year run, not a 3 year run and the fans aren't expert on what that takes.

I have no doubt that winning baseball will bring back a healthy number of fans.

I guess my point is that fan bases have formative years. Tradition. Family involvement. Passing the torch father to son.

Too many years of disinterest risks an unrecoverable fraction.

Edited November 29, 2021 by owknows

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Well that’s just it ….the higher draft lots are more valuable. It’s not fool proof and you actually need to take the best player for it to work. But, teams have benefited handsomely from the approach. Who were the Astros before they did it.

And you know what..teams that pick at the middle and the bottom of the draft have also benefited from it. 
 

In 2017, the Os drafted 21st.  They got DL Hall.  They followed that up with Adam Hall, Zac Lowther and Michael Baumann.  That’s not bad for picking 21st.  
 

You will find quality players everywhere in the draft…but you mostly find nothing, so you end up tanking for nothing.  

[owknows]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

It's just not time to wade into the free agent waters. SG and others are a year or two early with their ire IMO. I get wanting to get a jump on it and look like you're fielding a respectable team. I just don't really care that much. For me that's next year maybe. 

 

I think that sums it up well for me.

[sportsfan8703]

The worrisome thing about this “rebuild” is our pitching depth system wide and what happened to Kjerstad. Everything else has gone really well. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Of course they should, but this is a professional sports team and all I'm saying is the GM should do what he thinks is best, not what Johnny Message Board comes up with.

They went 14 years with losing and brought fans back in droves when they finally won. The point is we need a 10-20 year run, not a 3 year run and the fans aren't expert on what that takes.

Times are different now.  The younger fan is bored with the game and would rather like a post on IG than watch baseball.  They absolutely have to be considering the fans.

You don’t need to do dumb things but you do need to try and win.

Will fans come back?  Maybe..I think it’s definitely possible simply because it will be the thing to do, not because they are real fans.

That being said, I don’t think it’s the slam dunk it used to be because the game itself isn’t good right now and the entertainment options keep growing by the day.

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

It's just not time to wade into the free agent waters. SG and others are a year or two early with their ire IMO. I get wanting to get a jump on it and look like you're fielding a respectable team. I just don't really care that much. For me that's next year maybe. 

 

Not sure I agree with this. There are all kinds of defensible free agent strategies for this team right now:

1. Go all in. Go big. Try to win this year and next. (have to squint really hard to defend this)

2. Find guys who can be around for 4-5 years.

3. Stay out of it and bank money in the future.

What is less defensible would be:

1. Pay a lot for ok stop gaps that probably won't be around when it matters.

2. Stay out of it and pocket any savings. 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Tell me what has been done with the rebuild that couldn’t have been done if they were trying to win, outside of a high pick.

What else has been accomplished that can’t be if you are a winning team?

Are you going to answer this @interloper?

[Sports Guy]

And again, free agency is only one way to improve the team.  Personally, i think the majority of our improvements should come via trades.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

It's just not time to wade into the free agent waters. SG and others are a year or two early with their ire IMO. I get wanting to get a jump on it and look like you're fielding a respectable team. I just don't really care that much. For me that's next year maybe. 

 

What are you worried will happen if they do it now?