O's still in 3 way dance

[davearm]

The article mentions three-team deal. If DeRosa is involved as indicated, then that's clearly the Phils.

Doesn't mean the Pie/Olson piece can't still happen, but it's not really that pertinent to the story and besides it could happen as a follow-up if/when Pie goes to SD.

Anyway, it's the same story as it's always been. Somebody has to take Marquis (either in this deal or separately) before Peavy is doable. Frankly it makes sense to me that the Pads would step up and bite the bullet, since they're the ones up against it here. They stand to lose the most, by far, if this thing crumbles apart.

[ChrisAF79]

The article mentions three-team deal. If DeRosa is involved as indicated, then that's clearly the Phils.

Doesn't mean the Pie/Olson piece can't still happen, but it's not really that pertinent to the story and besides it could happen as a follow-up if/when Pie goes to SD.

Anyway, it's the same story as it's always been. Somebody has to take Marquis (either in this deal or separately) before Peavy is doable. Frankly it makes sense to me that the Pads would step up and bite the bullet, since they're the ones up against it here. They stand to lose the most, by far, if this thing crumbles apart.

I just don't see the Pads taking on Marquis though. They're trying desperately to shed money, not take it on. Even if the Cubs are throwing some money in their direction, I still think they'd much prefer Olson over Marquis.

[davearm]

I just don't see the Pads taking on Marquis though. They're trying desperately to shed money, not take it on. Even if the Cubs are throwing some money in their direction, I still think they'd much prefer Olson over Marquis.

It's not one or the other, though.

Sounds to me like they can have Olson for Pie, if they want it. But the whole deal gets off the ground only if someone takes Marquis.

[Lester Freamon]

It's not one or the other, though.

Sounds to me like they can have Olson for Pie, if they want it. But the whole deal gets off the ground only if someone takes Marquis.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3044

Yeah, it may be that if the O's agree to take Marquis this deal can be completed. I wonder if the Phillies see Marquis as a replacement for Moyer. I don't know that they do. I think the O's should pull the trigger, if this turns out to be the hold up. I'd like to have Pie. I think he'll develop well along with Adam Jones.

we'll see.

[wieters=nucleus]

Just read that the Twins might be involved instead of the Phillies on MLBtraderumorrs.com I dont think we will be involved anymore. I think that ship has sailed.

[markpolis]

It's not one or the other, though.

Sounds to me like they can have Olson for Pie, if they want it. But the whole deal gets off the ground only if someone takes Marquis.

Dave, do you think the Cubs would do Pie and Marquis (just to unload his salary) for Olson? If so, it seems like a no-brainer for the Orioles. Of course the Cubs would have to pay a portion of Marquis' salary. The Orioles should realize they are getting priced out of the free agent market and Marquis will cost the same if not less than comparable free agents such as Byrd.

[Lester Freamon]

Just read that the Twins might be involved instead of the Phillies on MLBtraderumorrs.com I dont think we will be involved anymore. I think that ship has sailed.

Maybe. But if the Pads want Olson and if we'll take Marquis then we are still in. The Twins and/or Phillies being in the deal is for DeRosa. But neither team, as far as I know, is willing to take Marquis. Maybe we aren't either, I don't know. But, if we are willing to take Marquis then I think we can do Olson for Pie.

but who knows. I've been away for a few hours and I haven't caught up with all the most recent chatter.

[PapaRick]

The article mentions three-team deal. If DeRosa is involved as indicated, then that's clearly the Phils.

Doesn't mean the Pie/Olson piece can't still happen, but it's not really that pertinent to the story and besides it could happen as a follow-up if/when Pie goes to SD.

Anyway, it's the same story as it's always been. Somebody has to take Marquis (either in this deal or separately) before Peavy is doable. Frankly it makes sense to me that the Pads would step up and bite the bullet, since they're the ones up against it here. They stand to lose the most, by far, if this thing crumbles apart.

Dave,

There are parts to this recent rumor that don't seem to make sense unless the Cubs are trying to get rid of even more dollars. DeRosa seems like a major chip for the Cubs to give up as opposed to Pie, particularly from Lou's vantage. But then maybe the Cubs keeping Marshall is the price that the Padres pay for the Cubs having to lose DeRosa. Seems like San Diego and the Cubs are both weaker than with the three way with the O's. But if we won't takeon enough of Marquis salary, maybe that is the way it has to be.

[davearm]

Dave, do you think the Cubs would do Pie and Marquis (just to unload his salary) for Olson? If so, it seems like a no-brainer for the Orioles. Of course the Cubs would have to pay a portion of Marquis' salary. The Orioles should realize they are getting priced out of the free agent market and Marquis will cost the same if not less than comparable free agents such as Byrd.

The way you phrase the question is a little odd.

The Cubs don't have any interest in Olson, and they don't really care where Pie and Marquis end up.

[davearm]

Maybe. But if the Pads want Olson and if we'll take Marquis then we are still in. The Twins and/or Phillies being in the deal is for DeRosa. But neither team, as far as I know, is willing to take Marquis. Maybe we aren't either, I don't know. But, if we are willing to take Marquis then I think we can do Olson for Pie.

but who knows. I've been away for a few hours and I haven't caught up with all the most recent chatter.

This seems right. Anyone willing to take Marquis is invited to the party.

[davearm]

Dave,

There are parts to this recent rumor that don't seem to make sense unless the Cubs are trying to get rid of even more dollars. DeRosa seems like a major chip for the Cubs to give up as opposed to Pie, particularly from Lou's vantage. But then maybe the Cubs keeping Marshall is the price that the Padres pay for the Cubs having to lose DeRosa. Seems like San Diego and the Cubs are both weaker than with the three way with the O's. But if we won't takeon enough of Marquis salary, maybe that is the way it has to be.

I don't think bringing DeRosa into the deal was the Cubs' idea, but I doubt it's a deal-breaker.

Hendry figures to be willing to look at a lot of different scenarios here. And the payroll implications are certainly favorable for including DeRosa, so long as appropriate value is returned (meaning one or two other important pieces are pulled back out, like Marshall and/or Vitters).

[markpolis]

The way you phrase the question is a little odd.

The Cubs don't have any interest in Olson, and they don't really care where Pie and Marquis end up.

I realize they don't, but clearly the Padres do. My question is would the Cubs want something more from the Orioles than Olson (then flipped to the Padres) for Pie and Marquis? If not, it should be a no-brainer for the Orioles.

[markpolis]

I don't think bringing DeRosa into the deal was the Cubs' idea, but I doubt it's a deal-breaker.

Hendry figures to be willing to look at a lot of different scenarios here. And the payroll implications are certainly favorable for including DeRosa, so long as appropriate value is returned (meaning one or two other important pieces are pulled back out, like Marshall and/or Vitters).

This doesn't make sense. Vitters and/or Marshall would go to the Padres, not the Phillies. The Cubs need a third team involved because the Padres don't like the pitchers the Cubs have to offer. The Phillies would trade one or two pitching prospects to the Cubs and then those prospects (along with Vitters and others) would then be traded to the Padres for Peavy.

Same with the Orioles and Olson. The Cubs don't want Olson, but to make the Peavy trade happen they need to get Olson and flip him to the Padres.

[davearm]

This doesn't make sense. Vitters and/or Marshall would go to the Padres, not the Phillies. The Cubs need a third team involved because the Padres don't like the pitchers the Cubs have to offer. The Phillies would trade one or two pitching prospects to the Cubs and then those prospects (along with Vitters and others) would then be traded to the Padres for Peavy.

Same with the Orioles and Olson. The Cubs don't want Olson, but to make the Peavy trade happen they need to get Olson and flip him to the Padres.

Of course it makes sense.

Let's imagine in straight trade with SD, the Cubs would give Pie, Vitters, Marshall, Cedeno, Hart. Just spitballing but that's probaby in the neighborhood.

Bringing in Olson/Pie doesn't change the Cubs' package at all, although it does achieve the objective of sending SD more pitching.

But if the Cubs are sending DeRosa to Philly, then what's coming out of the Cubs' package? Surely you don't expect they'd give the first five, PLUS DeRosa.

Replace Vitters with the Phils' contribution, and swap Hill in for Marshall, would be my idea. Then draw straws to see who's taking Marquis + $4M, and viola, done deal.

[allstar1579]

Everything is pointing to the O's/Cubs end of things being a done deal, IF they need us, lets all stop assuming that we are doing something to screw things up somehow.

More than likely it is SD trying to get the most out of the deal, and checking around for other pitchers better than Olson that they can squeeze. Happ has a bit more luster than Olson right now as he hasn't been shelled over a about a full season like GO has.

They have already said this deal won't be done during the winter meetings, most likely because SD has to clear some spots on the 40 man for the players inbound and do not want to do that before the rule 5 draft.

Lets just be patient for a few days and see how it shakes out later. Right now we should be focusing on the CC/Lowe signings and how they are going to effect our Tex/AJ pursuit.