Orioles sign another catcher, pitcher to MiLB deals

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Guess Notingham now has competition.

Doesn’t bring much.

 

[Frobby]

31 years old.   Sounds more like an org guy than a candidate for our Major League roster, even for a few weeks.  .679 OPS in the minors, .746 in AAA but almost entirely in the hitter friendly PCL/AAAW.

[HowAboutThat]

Meh…

As the town councilman said, when they were unable to hire Graupner For the post, and had instead to hire JS Bach,” when one cannot have the best, one must settle for the middling.“

[Frobby]

I read something about this Matt Vogel guy a few days ago, but I can’t remember where.  

[Aristotelian]

Bem-BOOM goes the dynamite!

[sportsfan8703]

LH hitting depth catcher. If the Service time rule in the new CBA stays the same then, Nottingham and Benboom make the OD roster.  Plus, you always need catchers for ST. At least these two guys have been around a little bit and could help out the pitching. 
 

Vogel is interesting in that he’s had high K numbers the last few years, but that’s been in IND ball. Also, he doesn’t give up homers really. Only 8 over his 7 year career. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

LH hitting depth catcher. If the Service time rule in the new CBA stays the same then, Nottingham and Benboom make the OD roster.  Plus, you always need catchers for ST. At least these two guys have been around a little bit and could help out the pitching. 
 

Vogel is interesting in that he’s had high K numbers the last few years, but that’s been in IND ball. Also, he doesn’t give up homers really. Only 8 over his 7 year career. 

I'd love to be in the room while team lawyers explained to an arbiter why Nottingham and Benboon made the OD roster over Adley.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd love to be in the room while team lawyers explained to an arbiter why Nottingham and Benboon made the OD roster over Adley.

Because the system allows it.  It’s that simple.  There is no rule against taking advantage of the system that is provided to you.

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because the system allows it.  It’s that simple.  There is no rule against taking advantage of the system that is provided to you.

Well, that is a good question.   There’s a principle in the law that every contract includes an implied duty of good faith.   So, if you are holding back a player, you have to have a colorable good faith rationale.   Obviously, the Cubs were deemed to have had enough of a fig leaf to win their case against Bryant, so that might deter further challenges.  But, if the CBA wording gets tweaked a little, there might be more of a hook for players to hang their hat on.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, that is a good question.   There’s a principle in the law that every contract includes an implied duty of good faith.   So, if you are holding back a player, you have to have a colorable good faith rationale.   Obviously, the Cubs were deemed to have had enough of a fig leaf to win their case against Bryant, so that might deter further challenges.  But, if the CBA wording gets tweaked a little, there might be more of a hook for players to hang their hat on.

That’s fine..we have to see what changes but as things stand, the rules allow it.

And btw, as a business, you are supposed to well by your employees but you can argue that your shareholders are even more important.

The fans are the shareholders and the bottom line is that it is better for the team And the fans to have their franchise player(and the player that is likely to be THE fan favorite) here for as long as possible.  So, waiting those extra few weeks does that.

It’s like all the tax loopholes.  You want people paying more taxes?  Ok fine..then close the loopholes.  Until then, they are taking advantage of the rules, which is exactly what they should do.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s fine..we have to see what changes but as things stand, the rules allow it.

And btw, as a business, you are supposed to well by your employees but you can argue that your shareholders are even more important.

The fans are the shareholders and the bottom line is that it is better for the team And the fans to have their franchise player(and the player that is likely to be THE fan favorite) here for as long as possible.  So, waiting those extra few weeks does that.

It’s like all the tax loopholes.  You want people paying more taxes?  Ok fine..then close the loopholes.  Until then, they are taking advantage of the rules, which is exactly what they should do.

You say “the rules allow it,” but I think if the O’s came out and said, “we know that Adley is ready for the majors and better than the two guys on the roster,” they’d lose a bad faith case.   Obviously they are not going to say that.  Someone would have to prove that’s what they thought, and that they held him back solely for service time reasons.   Teams are going to get the benefit of the doubt because you can’t litigate every exercise of judgment about when a player is ready or would benefit from a little more time in the minors.   

[spiritof66]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:17 AM, Sports Guy said:

That’s fine..we have to see what changes but as things stand, the rules allow it.

And btw, as a business, you are supposed to well by your employees but you can argue that your shareholders are even more important.

The fans are the shareholders and the bottom line is that it is better for the team And the fans to have their franchise player(and the player that is likely to be THE fan favorite) here for as long as possible.  So, waiting those extra few weeks does that.

It’s like all the tax loopholes.  You want people paying more taxes?  Ok fine..then close the loopholes.  Until then, they are taking advantage of the rules, which is exactly what they should do.

How is it that the fans are shareholders? They don't own anything. They have no legal rights as fans and have no decision-making authority. The Orioles' fans are the team's customers. The general partner, Peter Angelos, is the equivalent of a majority shareholder. The limited partners are like minority shareholders. 

A team has no responsibilities to do anything for its fans. It should treat its fans well as a matter of good business sense, so that those fans will remain Oriole fans and keep spending their money going to Oriole games and watching them on cable. It's hard to use "Angelos" and "good business sense" in the same sentence, and the result is a near-the-bottom rank in attendance, even with NYY and RS pushing up ticket sales.

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

How is it that the fans are shareholders? They don't own anything. They have no legal rights as fans and have no decision-making authority. The Orioles' fans are the team's customers. The general partner, Peter Angelos, is the equivalent of a majority shareholder. The limited partners are like minority shareholders. 

A team has no responsibilities to do anything for its fans. It should treat its fans well as a matter of good business sense, so that those fans will remain Oriole fans and keep spending their money going to Oriole games and watching them on cable. It's hard to use "Angelos" and "good business sense" in the same sentence, and the result is a near-the-bottom rank in attendance, even with NYY and RS pushing up ticket sales.

In this model, fans are essentially stockholders.  Obviously not the same definition but they are ones watching, spending money, etc…but you also have to remember the context in which we are discussing it.

[Frobby]

Here’s a bit on Benboom:

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/12/bemboom-braced-for-competition-and-rutschmans-arrival.html

[spiritof66]

Most of us recognize that baseball has had problems and that some things ought to be considered to address those problems. There are a lot of reasons why people, especially young people, don't become baseball fans, and why others have lost and will lose interest in baseball. There also are a lot of reasons why people, even young people, are still drawn to baseball, and why fans remain, and will continue to remain, baseball fans for decades. That's true even of fans who don't like some features of today's game. and even of fans of teams that are about to go 40 years without a World Series appearance, or teams that play five or six years without really trying to win. 

One of the attractions of baseball is its ability to maintain the year-round interest of many fans. There's often a spate of big-name signings in November, right after the World Series, then the winter meetings, lots more signings, then a brief respite (or, for some, the winter leagues and then the Caribbean Series) and we're back in spring training, which in recent decade has become a far more popular destination. I've never been super-attentive to the Hot Stove League: I pay pretty close attention to deals that are made, but much less to those that are speculated about. (This off-season might have been more interesting to me than usual, as teams reacted to a new collective bargaining agreement.) I haven't been to a spring training game in years. But there's no doubt that millions of baseball fans are avid followers of the HSL and of ST, and to the almost-year-round baseball activity they provide.

Yet Manfred (and maybe the MLBPA -- not clear to me) don't seem to think it matters at all if baseball just gives away its year-round nature. Sprinkled among the distortions, half-truths and attempts at fancy footwork in his December 2 letter to "our Fans" are a couple of references to MLB's only timing concern: get a new collective bargaining agreement in time to start the regular season time and protect the cash flows from national TV, local cable, internet and ticket sales. "We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time." Not a word about the getting locked-out players ready to play and observed by their teams before games count. Or about teams whose time to themselves by making trades and signing ML free agents will be stunted. Or about giving teams a chance to react to changes in the CLB. Just more proof that Manfred and his puppeteers don't care about the game. For them, it's about defeating the union, and they think a lock-out that stays in place until March 31 (opening day) is staring the players in the face will support that objective. They don't seem to care much, if at all, what they do to the game -- and to their own billion-dollar investments -- in that process as long as they can declare themselves winners in their childish struggle against the union. 

This is not about who's right and who's wrong in this impasse. I'm not saying the union or the players bear no responsibility for it; it's just not clear to me how much they drove the owners to impose this hiatus, or whether they understood that there's some value to what's been lost. And I do know they're not the ones who pulled the plug on off-season activity, leaving us to subsist, probably until March and possibly longer, on managerial firings and hirings, MiL transactions, and table and computer baseball games.