Means to 60-day, O's option Wells not Lakins, purchase Diplan from Norfolk

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I hope they'll spend money when they're in "win now" mode.  But first, I would hope that they'd spend to keep guys like AR, G-Rod and whatever other home grown talent comes up that looks to be part of an identifiable core.  

I agree, I think it's those 4 for this year and that's it.  Maybe Westburg, too.  We won't see DL Hall for awhile.  

In rough order of when I expect them:

Adley

Bradish (possibly before Adley because of injury/need)

G-Rod

Vavra/Stowers - Interesting discussion of when because of our currently decent OF. Maybe after the trade deadline?

Hall

Westburg - last of this group unless he absolutely forces 2 promotions

 

[interloper]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I get all that but this shows that Elias is still using bandaids vs having guys that are ready to be good major leaguers. This isn't 2021 anymore. He should not be needing band aid guys like Watkins, Lakins and Diplan. Wells threw 32 pitches. He should have been able to be ready by Tuesday. 

Wells is one of the guys that needs to be evaluated this year. Moving him up and down and getting him out of rhythm is what they did to Lowther last year.  

Diplan is a marginal major leaguer who can eat a few innings here and there, but he's not part of the future here. Neither is Lakins.

It's time to turn the page from bandaids...

Yeah, I hear you. I think so much depends on the SP prospects at AAA. When they're comfortable finally promoting those guys - and yes, they're taking their sweet ass time with it - then the trickle-down effect results in less guys like Lakins clogging the bullpen. 

I agree that the Wells option was a little annoying. They really, REALLY put the emphasis on having fresh arms available to a degree that is arguably excessive. 

[wildcard]

36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's not really, because it shows Elias' thought process. He decided his fall back options would be guys with 8.0+ ERA last year or a guy with 6.00+ ERA in Harvey. When he need a bullpen piece, he brought up a guy who hasn't been good since 2019 in Lakins.

So while these aren't the end of the world moves, these moves and adding Odor shows he's still in "trying to do this as cheap as possible" mode vs "This is the year we try to win by adding some vets and giving our prospects chances" mode.

It just seems that Elias is still in 2021 mode where he's bringing in guys that are not good major leaguers because he didn't go out and get anyone but Lyles this offseason.

Now I wasn't in the camp of going out and getting high priced guys like Bryant but when it came to starting pitching, he definitely could have added another starter besides Lyles if he wasn't prepared to give Bradish and GRod chances until later in the season.

I don't think Elias is punting this season the way some have said.

His plan is having room for the young players to play in the majors.

Grayson and Bradish are O's top 10 starters that were expected to spend most of the season in the rotation.  Those expectation were there before the season began and we knew they would spend a month or so in AAA.   

Additionally he had Means, Lyles and Zimmermann.   He made the decision to make T Wells a starter going into ST.   So barring injuries he had 6 starters that would be there for most of the season.

 Granted Grayson, Bradish and T Wells will have inning limits.  Its one of the reasons DL Hall went to extended ST.   To saving innings for the last two to three months of the season.

The starters used to cover until Grayson and Bradish are called up were always going to be stopgaps.  That Means went down with an injury early causes the need for another stopgap starter.

But in May 4 pitchers on the current staff are going to be optioned or DFA'd to make room for Grayson and Bradish plus the roster goes from 28 to 26.  Right now it looks like Lakins and Watkins will be two of them.    The starters are being stretched out to cover some of these innings.  Akins and Baumann in long relief should account for some innings.

I didn't like the Sulser/Scott trade because it took away from the team's depth of pitching especially in the late innings.  But  Elias must have seen enough in ST to believe he had the relievers to get through the season.  We will see if he is right.  I still would not have made that trade.

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

In rough order of when I expect them:

Adley

Bradish (possibly before Adley because of injury/need)

G-Rod

Vavra/Stowers - Interesting discussion of when because of our currently decent OF. Maybe after the trade deadline?

Hall

Westburg - last of this group unless he absolutely forces 2 promotions

 

I agree, except for Hall.  I don't think we see him at all in Baltimore in 2022.  

[wildcard]

29 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

No, all the rumors were Kremer but turned out it was Watkins. Kremer was going to be the piggyback with Wells. Here is Roch. https://www.masnsports.com/blog/orioles-swept-and-lose-kremer-to-oblique-injury

Dean Kremer warmed in the bullpen, appearing to eliminate him from the assignment at Camden Yards, but he walked to the dugout while Bautista came back out for a scoreless third. 

“I was piggybacking Dean with Tyler,” Hyde said. “Bautista was going to come in … I didn’t want Dean to start with a runner on base, so it was going to be a clean inning to start, and he felt an oblique strain in the bullpen. We had to make it a bullpen game, which was difficult.”

Kremer never was going to start Tuesday. Spenser Watkins already was emerging as a leading candidate. The 40-man roster has an open spot.

Sounds like you nailed it.  

[crowmst3k!]

2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Even when the Orioles are in "win now" mode, I am unconvinced they will spend the money to sign pitchers like Ed-Rod and Kluber. But, yeah besides the money spent there isn't any reason why Elias couldn't have upgraded the starting rotation and also give prospects a chance to pitch.

Right now we're getting none of the above. Tomorrow would be a good opportunity to call up Bradish and have him make his first start in a pitcher friendly ballpark at Oakland. 

During their last window, they spent on pitching. Unfortunately, the two MLB free-agents they gave contracts to didn't pan out (Ubaldo and Cobb). Chen and Gonzalez worked out nicely, though.  

I don't know how much the Orioles will spend or who they target when they're ready to compete, but I suspect they'll be active in the FA pitching market again when the time is right. 

[Tony-OH]

32 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah, I hear you. I think so much depends on the SP prospects at AAA. When they're comfortable finally promoting those guys - and yes, they're taking their sweet ass time with it - then the trickle-down effect results in less guys like Lakins clogging the bullpen. 

I agree that the Wells option was a little annoying. They really, REALLY put the emphasis on having fresh arms available to a degree that is arguably excessive. 

I agree there for sure. I just don't like moving guys up and down unless you have to. Get them in a routine, let them settle in, stop playing the up down game with guys that you need to evaluate.

That's really my biggest issue other than Diplan or Sedlock should have been the guy the first time instead of Lakins. 

[Tony-OH]

25 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Elias is punting this season the way some have said.

His plan is having room for the young players to play in the majors.

Grayson and Bradish are O's top 10 starters that were expected to spend most of the season in the rotation.  Those expectation were there before the season began and we knew they would spend a month or so in AAA.   

Additionally he had Means, Lyles and Zimmermann.   He made the decision to make T Wells a starter going into ST.   So barring injuries he had 6 starters that would be there for most of the season.

 Granted Grayson, Bradish and T Wells will have inning limits.  Its one of the reasons DL Hall went to extended ST.   To saving innings for the last two to three months of the season.

The starters used to cover until Grayson and Bradish are called up were always going to be stopgaps.  That Means went down with an injury early causes the need for another stopgap starter.

But in May 4 pitchers on the current staff are going to be optioned or DFA'd to make room for Grayson and Bradish plus the roster goes from 28 to 26.  Right now it looks like Lakins and Watkins will be two of them.    The starters are being stretched out to cover some of these innings.  Akins and Baumann in long relief should account for some innings.

I didn't like the Sulser/Scott trade because it took away from the team's depth of pitching especially in the late innings.  But  Elias must have seen enough in ST to believe he had the relievers to get through the season.  We will see if he is right.  I still would not have made that trade.

I guess we'll have to see when/if we see Bradish and Rodriguez. They did have room to add another free agent starter like Archer/ERod though.

I don't really disagree with much you say here although I was fine with Scott/Sulser trade because I felt we did have the depth in the bullpen.

 

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree there for sure. I just don't like moving guys up and down unless you have to. Get them in a routine, let them settle in, stop playing the up down game with guys that you need to evaluate.

That's really my biggest issue other than Diplan or Sedlock should have been the guy the first time instead of Lakins. 

I also would like Sedlock to finally get his shot. To be honest, I don't think he'll have much success in the bigs, but it certainly would be interesting to find out and you could at least say, "we got one of our top picks to the big leagues". 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, interloper said:

I also would like Sedlock to finally get his shot. To be honest, I don't think he'll have much success in the bigs, but it certainly would be interesting to find out and you could at least say, "we got one of our top picks to the big leagues". 

I really don't know if his Changeup/Fastball combo will work for long, but if he spots it I think he actually has a chance as a middle reliever. I'd give him a chance over Lakins or Diplan.

[wildcard]

45 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

In rough order of when I expect them:

Adley

Bradish (possibly before Adley because of injury/need)

G-Rod

Vavra/Stowers - Interesting discussion of when because of our currently decent OF. Maybe after the trade deadline?

Hall

Westburg - last of this group unless he absolutely forces 2 promotions

 

I would not be surprise to see Stowers in May with a rotation of Mancini, Mountcastle, Hays, Mullins, Santander and Stowers getting a day off every 5 days.

Also in May either Jones or Nevin being called up.  

Most likely to go are Owings, Guttierrez, McKenna and Odor in that order as of right now.

[wildcard]

17 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't really disagree with much you say here although I was fine with Scott/Sulser trade because I felt we did have the depth in the bullpen.

They all break.

[ChuckS]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I would not be surprise to see Stowers in May with a rotation of Mancini, Mountcastle, Hays, Mullins, Santander and Stowers getting a day off every 5 days.

Also in May either Jones or Nevin being called up.  

Most likely to go are Owings, Guttierrez, McKenna and Odor in that order as of right now.

I don't think it will come to that.  The chances of one of those five getting injured before June is high. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I really don't know if his Changeup/Fastball combo will work for long, but if he spots it I think he actually has a chance as a middle reliever. I'd give him a chance over Lakins or Diplan.

Sir: curious your thoughts on Owings. You made a comment about him being a Sig guy. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on him. Some is discussed in Owings thread.

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, interloper said:

I also would like Sedlock to finally get his shot. To be honest, I don't think he'll have much success in the bigs, but it certainly would be interesting to find out and you could at least say, "we got one of our top picks to the big leagues". 

Sedlock is going to have to pitch well at AAA before he get a chance IMO.